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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 06:17:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
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Well, speaking of serendipity!=A0 I made a careless error, but it turns out=
 to provide your answer.=A0 I said I was dropping {la} with cmevla, but I m=
eant cmene.=A0 Still, if I stick to what I *said*, the problem (the one you=
 mention at least) is solved.=A0 {mi klama paris berlin} gives destination =
and origin, {mi klama la paris berlin} gives only a strange destination.=A0=
 Of course,=A0 if I want to add that I took the TGV=A0 or came to that stra=
nge destination from Rome, I might get new problems.=A0 Back to the drawing=
 board!


________________________________
 From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla
=20

la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e
> I do think this talk about a documented baseline has about worn out its
> usefulness.

Yes! Finally someone says this openly.

> It started when it became clear that the grammar in CLL did
> not correspond to what anybody was doing in Lojban.=A0 But it was
> predicated on somebody actually doing the documentation and in the
> intervening two decades, no one has even made a pass at that.=A0 So, why
> not go back to CLL.=A0 Say that *is* the baseline and largely wrong and
> then start to build the new normal, incorporating suggestions as they
> come along and get accepted, rather than waiting for the Baseline (who
> is do a week after the Messiah and two after Elijah).

I would love that.

> That ids, in
> fact, the way people have been behaving for most of Lojban's history but
> there have been no controls on them because "it is not yet the time to
> make changes".=A0 Too bad, the changes just get made, even if they are
> dumb.=A0 Better to hash them out and issue decrees now then try to patch
> things up later (much later, since after the baseline).

That's kind of what I keep saying.

> So, for example, I use dotside prime. (and am thinking about dropping
> {la} with cmevla).

Hehe :P. You would still need to show how you would distinguish between {mi=
 klama .paris. .berlin.} "I go to Paris from Berlin" and {mi klama .paris.b=
erlin.} "I go to Paris-Berlin" (whatever that is). How do you distinguish b=
etween cmevla strings that form a single sumti together and cmevla strings =
that don't? You cannot simply remove the middle dot there, because *{.paris=
berlin.} has an illegal consonant pair. I assume you would use a JOI to glu=
e them and have them be seperate otherwise?

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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--=20
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Well, spea=
king of serendipity!&nbsp; I made a careless error, but it turns out to pro=
vide your answer.&nbsp; I said I was dropping {la} with cmevla, but I meant=
 cmene.&nbsp; Still, if I stick to what I *said*, the problem (the one you =
mention at least) is solved.&nbsp; {mi klama paris berlin} gives destinatio=
n and origin, {mi klama la paris berlin} gives only a strange destination.&=
nbsp; Of course,&nbsp; if I want to add that I took the TGV&nbsp; or came t=
o that strange destination from Rome, I might get new problems.&nbsp; Back =
to the drawing board!<br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-f=
amily: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div sty=
le=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt=
;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <b>=
<span
 style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> selpa'i &lt;seladwa@gmx.de&gt=
;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegro=
ups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday,=
 June 10, 2013 5:26 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</=
span></b> Re: [lojban] cmevla as a class of brivla<br> </font> </div> <div =
class=3D"y_msg_container"><br>
la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e<br>&gt; I do think this talk about a documented ba=
seline has about worn out its<br>&gt; usefulness.<br><br>Yes! Finally someo=
ne says this openly.<br><br>&gt; It started when it became clear that the g=
rammar in CLL did<br>&gt; not correspond to what anybody was doing in Lojba=
n.&nbsp; But it was<br>&gt; predicated on somebody actually doing the docum=
entation and in the<br>&gt; intervening two decades, no one has even made a=
 pass at that.&nbsp; So, why<br>&gt; not go back to CLL.&nbsp; Say that *is=
* the baseline and largely wrong and<br>&gt; then start to build the new no=
rmal, incorporating suggestions as they<br>&gt; come along and get accepted=
, rather than waiting for the Baseline (who<br>&gt; is do a week after the =
Messiah and two after Elijah).<br><br>I would love that.<br><br>&gt; That i=
ds, in<br>&gt; fact, the way people have been behaving for most of Lojban's=
 history but<br>&gt; there have been no controls on them because "it
 is not yet the time to<br>&gt; make changes".&nbsp; Too bad, the changes j=
ust get made, even if they are<br>&gt; dumb.&nbsp; Better to hash them out =
and issue decrees now then try to patch<br>&gt; things up later (much later=
, since after the baseline).<br><br>That's kind of what I keep saying.<br><=
br>&gt; So, for example, I use dotside prime. (and am thinking about droppi=
ng<br>&gt; {la} with cmevla).<br><br>Hehe :P. You would still need to show =
how you would distinguish between {mi klama .paris. .berlin.} "I go to Pari=
s from Berlin" and {mi klama .paris.berlin.} "I go to Paris-Berlin" (whatev=
er that is). How do you distinguish between cmevla strings that form a sing=
le sumti together and cmevla strings that don't? You cannot simply remove t=
he middle dot there, because *{.parisberlin.} has an illegal consonant pair=
. I assume you would use a JOI to glue them and have them be seperate other=
wise?<br><br>mu'o mi'e la selpa'i<br><br>-- You received this
 message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<br=
>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an =
email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" href=3D"=
mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>T=
o post to this group, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroup=
s.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.=
<br>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.<br>F=
or more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br><br><br=
><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

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