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From: ".arpis." <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:09:46 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] break a cipher
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On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 21:17:54 .arpis. wrote:
> > {selmipmifra} for (private) key, maybe {tolselmipmifra} for public key.
>
> What's wrong with "mifckiku"? A key is not a cipher; it's a parameter to a
> cipher, being the small amount that has to be kept secret (except for
> public
> keys) while the cipher algorithm can be public. ckiku2=mifra3.
>

I like it better than my suggestions (I was a bit tired), but it's slightly
figurative; apparently, {termifckiku} and {kiktermifra} are mentioned in
the definition of {ckiku} for "crypto key", so I guess it's within the
accepted use of {ckiku}.

>
> > I'm not really sure for "salt"; you could make an argument for {mipmifra}
> > (thing that keeps the data hidden), but it would be a stretch.
> >
> > Also, many of these are technical jargon and could be fu'ivla.
>
> I checked "hash" and "salt" in Wikipedia. Most of the languages
> transliterate
> "hash", but all the ones that I can read except Indonesian translate "salt"
> (which in the ordinary sense is "garam"). So I'd say "fancrxacu" and
> "mifrxaca", but I'm not sure what to call cryptographic salt. Does it have
> a
> source and composition? Does it flavor anything (thinking of "tsapi")?
>
> It has none of source, composition, or flavor. It's used as a second input
to a password hash function (usually by concatenating it with the actual
input before running the function on the resulting string, but that's an
implementation detail); it is publicly known; its purpose is to make
rainbow tables infeasible as an mass attack vector; it is mostly a special
case of "nonce" and is similar to "initialization vector" except for hashes
instead of ciphers.


> Pierre
> --
> li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du
> li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci
>
> --
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>
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Pierre Abbat <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:phma@bezitopo.org" target=3D"_blank">phma@bezitopo.org</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 =
21:17:54 .arpis. wrote:<br>
&gt; {selmipmifra} for (private) key, maybe {tolselmipmifra} for public key=
.<br>
<br>
</div>What&#39;s wrong with &quot;mifckiku&quot;? A key is not a cipher; it=
&#39;s a parameter to a<br>
cipher, being the small amount that has to be kept secret (except for publi=
c<br>
keys) while the cipher algorithm can be public. ckiku2=3Dmifra3.<br></block=
quote><div><br></div><div>I like it better than my suggestions (I was a bit=
 tired), but it&#39;s slightly figurative; apparently, {termifckiku} and {k=
iktermifra} are mentioned in the definition of {ckiku} for &quot;crypto key=
&quot;, so I guess it&#39;s within the accepted use of {ckiku}.<br>

</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; I&#39;m not really sure for &quot;salt&quot;; you could make an argume=
nt for {mipmifra}<br>
&gt; (thing that keeps the data hidden), but it would be a stretch.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also, many of these are technical jargon and could be fu&#39;ivla.<br>
<br>
</div>I checked &quot;hash&quot; and &quot;salt&quot; in Wikipedia. Most of=
 the languages transliterate<br>
&quot;hash&quot;, but all the ones that I can read except Indonesian transl=
ate &quot;salt&quot;<br>
(which in the ordinary sense is &quot;garam&quot;). So I&#39;d say &quot;fa=
ncrxacu&quot; and<br>
&quot;mifrxaca&quot;, but I&#39;m not sure what to call cryptographic salt.=
 Does it have a<br>
source and composition? Does it flavor anything (thinking of &quot;tsapi&qu=
ot;)?<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></span></blockquo=
te><div>It has none of source, composition, or flavor. It&#39;s used as a s=
econd input to a password hash function (usually by concatenating it with t=
he actual input before running the function on the resulting string, but th=
at&#39;s an implementation detail); it is publicly known; its purpose is to=
 make rainbow tables infeasible as an mass attack vector; it is mostly a sp=
ecial case of &quot;nonce&quot; and is similar to &quot;initialization vect=
or&quot; except for hashes instead of ciphers.<br>

</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><=
font color=3D"#888888">
Pierre<br>
--<br>
li ze te&#39;a ci vu&#39;u ci bi&#39;e te&#39;a mu du<br>
li ci su&#39;i ze te&#39;a mu bi&#39;e vu&#39;u ci<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
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<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .arpis.<br>
</div></div>

<p></p>

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