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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:41:37 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKOEKkRervAE0Nv1-8gPinOdNk+YgqKnjkchgh66Zaw6ME65mQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Translating "as"
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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  Ummm.. no it wasn't... you said "But in this case we should solve the
same problem for conjunctions.
What is {xekri je mlatu}? One black cat or two objects, one black and
another one being a cat?"

  Unless I'm missing something... but in any case, why do "we have to mirror
conjunctions (ju'e, je) and NOI-cmavo"?  I say to you "na'i"
 --geyspa


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:32 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> On Friday, June 14, 2013 5:04:59 PM UTC+4, gejyspa wrote:
>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:24 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, June 14, 2013 3:56:38 PM UTC+4, gejyspa wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "xekri je mlatu" is not any amount of objects.  It's a selbri.  "lo
>>>> xekri je mlatu" is an object. "xekri je mlatu" is a description of  all
>>>> objects that are both black and cats.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Okay.
>>> 1. How would you describe one object that is black and white but at
>>> different time?
>>> 2. How would you describe two objects, one black and another one white?
>>>
>>>      Well, in the first case, I'd probably make that explicit with
>> relative phrases or tanru, but since we are dealing with the question of
>> conjunctions....
>>     That's what JOI are for.
>>     First the might use lo xekri ju'e blabi (jo'u might work as well, but
>> might imply either an  always white or  always black thing)
>>      For the second, the obvious choice lo xekri je lo blabi.
>>
>
> I'm not that sure about {ju'e}  but anyway the question was about NOI.
> If {poi} now separates individuals than we have to mirror conjunctions
> (ju'e, je) and NOI-cmavo.
> I don't welcome ad hoc decisions in lojban.
>
>  --gejyspa
>>
>>  --
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<div dir=3D"ltr">=A0 Ummm.. no it wasn&#39;t... you said &quot;<span style=
=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">But in =
this case we should solve the same problem for conjunctions.</span><div sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
What is {xekri je mlatu}? One black cat or two objects, one black and anoth=
er one being a cat?&quot;</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family=
:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80=
);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
=A0 Unless I&#39;m missing something... but in any case, why do &quot;we ha=
ve to=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">mirror conjunctions (ju&#39;e, =
je) and NOI-cmavo&quot;? =A0I say to you &quot;na&#39;i&quot;</span></div><=
div style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px=
">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">=A0--geyspa</span></div><div style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:32 AM, la arxokuna <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<br><br>On Friday, June 14, 2013 5:04:59 PM UTC+4, gejyspa wrote:<div><div =
class=3D"h5"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-lef=
t:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:24 AM, la arxokuna <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>gleki.is...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>On Friday, June 14, 2013 3:56:38 PM UTC=
+4, gejyspa wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margi=
n-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">&quot;xekri je mlatu&quot; is not any amount of objects. =
=A0It&#39;s a selbri. =A0&quot;lo xekri je mlatu&quot; is an object. &quot;=
xekri je mlatu&quot; is a description of =A0all objects that are both black=
 and cats.</div>

</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Okay.=A0</div><div>1. How would you =
describe one object that is black and white but at different time?</div><di=
v>2. How would you describe two objects, one black and another one white?</=
div>

<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-l=
eft:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></div>=A0 =A0 =A0Well, in the first=
 case, I&#39;d probably make that explicit with relative phrases or tanru, =
but since we are dealing with the question of conjunctions....</div>

<div>=A0 =A0 That&#39;s what JOI are for.</div><div>=A0 =A0 First the might=
 use lo xekri ju&#39;e blabi (jo&#39;u might work as well, but might imply =
either an =A0always white or =A0always black thing)=A0</div>
<div>=A0 =A0 =A0For the second, the obvious choice lo xekri je lo blabi.=A0=
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div><div>I&#39;m not that s=
ure about {ju&#39;e} =A0but anyway the question was about NOI.</div><div>If=
 {poi} now separates individuals than we have to mirror conjunctions (ju=
9;e, je) and NOI-cmavo.</div>
<div>I don&#39;t welcome ad hoc decisions in lojban.</div><div><br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=A0--gejyspa</d=
iv><div>
<br></div></div>
</blockquote><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

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=A0<br>
=A0<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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