Received: from mail-oa0-f63.google.com ([209.85.219.63]:58555) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UoRsl-0005qX-Ec for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:21:43 -0700 Received: by mail-oa0-f63.google.com with SMTP id f4sf886909oah.28 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:21:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=NTjiscgIlwzrEICAvlsv3M2/Ar2fcprt0mjpk/WPzaE=; b=bPxwySF0MBp+iNFbloMn0JXnkKUO99j/s4F3tSUdimvG+AWfa4C5F3zdndJER7C6Ln qzYx8yu+ZkHA1iynlf0K9ZWlHvek3RT6LsdyMgSRcyAj5iI0lQdNNxTRbKksf4lXY7jY K82ANxdFGW8NWk8H4Z9g+W/DCHS9vPTXSGd9XNF5o/bzVIzr7zvNDg64kNztCegrwBQC 42VaTp21RepERNnyJbRkeOfNS/qTdlkwSkgI7O7oJEPfVnKG7Bbb7hWjZtWEKrNWc6jM RBXpqA+yDxtxGzIm4Iq8w2Uzoro+748+zu/cDHWghi/fQRx8vXNuQ5uu05RVOBJZnNUo HBKg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=NTjiscgIlwzrEICAvlsv3M2/Ar2fcprt0mjpk/WPzaE=; b=OHU2PwfACXDjpoYeC3IUJdXiICPGV/Q74njXB38hwkdL1TAEO/CqzcVejh3qUI5+Oy 1mARDXoGa1LJb/QMTajGkqSeRAN5FeniczImkkQBd+Q5HM8lZK8WT94+tY/60kaozG5N DD0ulnTsTmqzuautfMWQI6ekFfxq6SMpYZVoazzq3j8m+OGuBePhrllAZvpZ8i7nImne rbMHuMrLADzRuEHT1t1vUnZZSIS4zpDZSbBeocd+LqJ68mBenclj15owYmHBjW8yzjpY +Xuv4stOKsMsvi1CM7XvWNu2uANh7AoBBXEIiJK21WigWiHuTUe66/C2E/MKnC7hu82s CGHQ== X-Received: by 10.49.62.3 with SMTP id u3mr315086qer.26.1371446488527; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:21:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.24.236 with SMTP id x12ls929764qef.99.gmail; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:21:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.4.136 with SMTP id k8mr327257qek.19.1371446488066; Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:21:27 -0700 (PDT) From: la arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3729f7bd-3aa6-499c-9a20-4b3d040d3ad8@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] A bug in the CLL 7.6 example 6.14). MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3596_18708480.1371446487850" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_3596_18708480.1371446487850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Monday, June 17, 2013 2:20:36 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote: > > {.i lo nei troci cu bebna} ;) > Is it a joke? If not what does it mean? =20 > > > On 16 June 2013 18:04, Ian Johnson >wro= te: > >> Useful examples of {nei} are somewhat hard to produce. As selbri or even= =20 >> seltau it is essentially useless, because the result is recursive; this = is=20 >> the case for 6.14. Even as sumti it's not that common, in my experience,= to=20 >> need {lo SE nei} and be unable to use both {vo'V} and {ri}, since this= =20 >> means you need nesting and a nested bridi with > 2 sumti in it. >> >> mi'e la latro'a mu'o >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 2:46 PM, la arxokuna >> > wrote: >> >>> http://dag.github.io/cll/7/6/ >>> >>> For good examples of =93nei=94 and =93no'a=94, we need nested bridi con= texts: >>> >>> 6.14) mi se pluka le nu do pensi >>> le nu nei kei pu le nu do zukte >>> I am-pleased-by the event-of (you think-about >>> (the event-of [main bridi]) before the-event of (your acti= ng). >>> I am pleased that you thought about whether I >>> would be pleased (about ...) before you acted. >>> 6.15) mi ba klama ca le nu do no'a >>> I [future] go [present] the event-of you [repeats outer bridi] >>> I will go when you do. >>> >>> >>> Acc. to jvs {nei} =3D pro-bridi: repeats the current bridi. >>> >>> So the CLL contradicts it. >>> >>> I also don't understand the meaning of example 6.14) if we assume {nei}= =20 >>> refers to the current bridi, not the main bridi (the one that has {se= =20 >>> pluka} as a selbri). >>> >>> I suggest removing 6.14) and replacing it with something having the=20 >>> correct usage of {nei}. >>> I suggested {mi lumci lo nei} (I wash myself) but JCowan said there=20 >>> could be much better examples. >>> =20 >>> --=20 >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= =20 >>> an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >>> . >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> >> >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n=20 >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> =20 >> =20 >> > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_3596_18708480.1371446487850 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Monday, June 17, 2013 2:20:36 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote:
{.i lo nei troci cu bebna= } ;)


Is it a joke? If = not what does it mean?
 


On 16 June 2013 18:0= 4, Ian Johnson <blindb...@gmail.com> wrote:
Useful examples of {nei} ar= e somewhat hard to produce. As selbri or even seltau it is essentially usel= ess, because the result is recursive; this is the case for 6.14. Even as su= mti it's not that common, in my experience, to need {lo SE nei} and be unab= le to use both {vo'V} and {ri}, since this means you need nesting and a nes= ted bridi with > 2 sumti in it.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o


On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 2:46 PM, la arxokuna <= ;gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
http://dag.github.io/cll/7/6/

For good examples of =93nei=94 and =93no'a=94, we need nested bridi context= s:

6.14)  mi se pluka le nu do pen=
si
             le nu nei kei pu le nu do zukte
       I am-pleased-by the event-of (you think-about
             (the event-of [main bridi]) before the-event of (your acting).
       I am pleased that you thought about whether I
             would be pleased (about ...) before you acted.

6.15)  mi ba klama ca le =
nu do no'a
       I [future] go [present] the event-of you [repeats outer bridi]
       I will go when you do.

Acc. to jvs {n= ei} =3D pro-bridi: repeats the current bridi.

So t= he CLL contradicts it.

I also don't understan= d the meaning of example 6.14) if we assume {nei} refers to the current bri= di, not the main bridi (the one that has {se pluka} as a selbri).

I suggest removing 6.14) and replacing it with somethin= g having the correct usage of {nei}.
I suggested {mi lumci lo nei= } (I wash myself) but JCowan said there could be much better examples.

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