Received: from mail-vc0-f185.google.com ([209.85.220.185]:34157) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UpL61-0005aL-I4 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:19:10 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f185.google.com with SMTP id lf11sf1836506vcb.12 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:18:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=jBUZOuLbQh+8VRhG10HC46n1wxA9FtQ85M0o2TFGDEc=; b=gUScXLBC1Pl2AJXHc61cbMQt799fRRmHaA/ss7lI2sOBzOt1APttkFhEEEVAtB2TEH X/iac2pzx5GmyLRMkw7T0VooH9xAK3VMQ7FKzKhFP3f7+rJkhkxAvQKMtV6JCN7cc4Qi /+8LyUoKb5r7dttvtyQFzNOKqMHt38pvs0LO0zS3DIeC4fu5ZToQp5umSvS1J0ho95VK fuf3rp/4SzSe+Iqfa568k126iU0qGgqYfXOslmSgyur9oyhHEtVnBDYDf93QjcLUnEVn 0fon3RBDmm/ndqeTTB8OXonyg71nJgQktc2yDWJih6Lbz7U1IsnAm4kPJejvrz4tdmsK Gmig== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=jBUZOuLbQh+8VRhG10HC46n1wxA9FtQ85M0o2TFGDEc=; b=WT9JgIZQREWRmodX+SZC7vS/7hJ0D8xSPDLonl17UfY4kinPCRYf+24I4UFNddkNYn ehjUjIwcewEOHoApq/PXXzyOFknNNwPIOxOKUFTDRLvrBZDl9H6SfUpfWftpJxgyM8sx HLvIqB7lHV2JCn5AFdKM3r/bFeGtVz5YLWzvytvVTO6Hn/9YrqR8qE0K067SaHEcHfG/ uSfFDbb59KVrD+rzPz8A7KqRK3cpw4QFOyX4mDQYZaiF5VhvVqb4A1smofSEwvPB3Plb RIftlrRllJ5KlIhYYT9garjXJSNTVmcLuDIZD51yp2QE3h1CLSFttfD7OwXR0GSEO4KS iARw== X-Received: by 10.50.2.34 with SMTP id 2mr197615igr.8.1371658729704; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:18:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.43.163 with SMTP id x3ls2228041igl.37.canary; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:18:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.18.40 with SMTP id t8mr967362igd.3.1371658726922; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:18:46 -0700 (PDT) From: la arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <156ead61-3e49-444f-ba1a-c808839fd50d@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <8561d566-8f8b-4b46-9e7b-5fdbc1367b33@googlegroups.com> <1371405876.998.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5a62e3e4-6bad-47c1-b6ad-86639420b7aa@googlegroups.com> <34087CDB-5C29-47F5-9257-D02B91A2502F@yahoo.com> <5958d62e-ea83-400a-8936-1f57aa1580b4@googlegroups.com> <97A72722-A86B-4774-B5A2-187F9129388B@yahoo.com> <50799cc6-dd21-4c1b-9dfb-f4ce0928d0f3@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] "we" and masses. A bug in the CLL? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_528_17601048.1371658726329" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_528_17601048.1371658726329 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:44:16 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote: > > Yes, and even with {lo}. {cusku} is not {bacru} (and even that can have > more than one, hence choruses). Nor need it be nearly as intimate as the > Borg; consider "informed sources said today". > Is it ambiguity of "we" or vagueness? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:26, la arxokuna > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 5:57:00 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote: >> >> But it misses (not commenting on whether would ever really want to do >> this). "we" is clearly plural but says nothing about how the members of >> that plurality are related to this nu cusku, beyond the fact that one >> member (already in {mi}) is uttering the instant token. In particular, >> they may all be saying this or only the one who is uttering it, and some >> may be among its target audience and some not. >> > > Do you mean that "we" can also assume that {le cusku be dei} can include > more than one individual ("We are the Borg") and no individuals outside > this dialog? > > >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jun 18, 2013, at 23:58, la arxokuna wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:19:05 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>> >>> gleki, I think you're too vlafi'i happy, for one thing, and nothing said >>> in this entire thread has changed my mind about this all being a non-issue. >>> >> >> The issue comes only when trying to precisely translate some sentences >> into lojban retaining the same level of vagueness. >> >> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_528_17601048.1371658726329 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:44:16 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
Yes, a= nd even with {lo}.  {cusku} is not {bacru} (and even that can have mor= e than one, hence choruses). Nor need it be nearly as intimate as the Borg;= consider "informed sources said today".
<= br>

Is it ambiguity of "we" or vagueness?
 

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:26,= la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:



On Wednesday, June 19, 2013= 5:57:00 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
But it misses (not commenting on whether wou= ld ever really want to do this).  "we" is clearly plural but says noth= ing about how the members of that plurality are related to this nu cusku, b= eyond the fact that one member (already in {mi}) is uttering the instant to= ken.  In particular, they may all be saying this or only the one who i= s uttering it, and some may be among its target audience and some not.
<= /div>

Do you mean that "we" can also = assume that {le cusku be dei} can include more than one individual ("We are= the Borg") and no individuals outside this dialog?


Sent= from my iPad

On Jun 18, 2013, at 23:58, la arxokuna <g= leki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:



On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:19:05 PM UTC+4, aionys= wrote:
gleki, I think you're too vl= afi'i happy, for one thing, and nothing said in this entire thread has chan= ged my mind about this all being a non-issue.

The issue comes only when trying to precisely translat= e some sentences into lojban retaining the same level of vagueness.
 

--
mu'o mi'e= .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi pat= fu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
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To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
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