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A bug in the CLL? References: <8561d566-8f8b-4b46-9e7b-5fdbc1367b33@googlegroups.com> <1371405876.998.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5a62e3e4-6bad-47c1-b6ad-86639420b7aa@googlegroups.com> <34087CDB-5C29-47F5-9257-D02B91A2502F@yahoo.com> <5958d62e-ea83-400a-8936-1f57aa1580b4@googlegroups.com> <97A72722-A86B-4774-B5A2-187F9129388B@yahoo.com> <50799cc6-dd21-4c1b-9dfb-f4ce0928d0f3@googlegroups.com> <156ead61-3e49-444f-ba1a-c808839fd50d@googlegroups.com> From: "John E. Clifford" X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) In-Reply-To: <156ead61-3e49-444f-ba1a-c808839fd50d@googlegroups.com> Message-Id: <7E4B1F87-0D2C-4973-9A23-E03427E46515@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:17:57 -0500 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.138.229.184 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-06A23BD7-23FB-4D2D-B18A-F2AE6FADF185 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam_score: 1.1 X-Spam_score_int: 11 X-Spam_bar: + X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Vagueness. We don't have determined boundaries (incomplete criterion, not more than one criterion) Sent from my iPad On Jun 19, 2013, at 11:18, la arxokuna wrote: [...] Content analysis details: (1.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (kali9putra[at]yahoo.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD 'From' yahoo.com does not match 'Received' headers 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid --Apple-Mail-06A23BD7-23FB-4D2D-B18A-F2AE6FADF185 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Vagueness. We don't have determined boundaries (incomplete criterion, not = more than one criterion) Sent from my iPad On Jun 19, 2013, at 11:18, la arxokuna wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:44:16 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote: > Yes, and even with {lo}. {cusku} is not {bacru} (and even that can have = more than one, hence choruses). Nor need it be nearly as intimate as the Bo= rg; consider "informed sources said today". >=20 >=20 > Is it ambiguity of "we" or vagueness? > =20 >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:26, la arxokuna wrote: >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 5:57:00 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote: >> But it misses (not commenting on whether would ever really want to do th= is). "we" is clearly plural but says nothing about how the members of that= plurality are related to this nu cusku, beyond the fact that one member (a= lready in {mi}) is uttering the instant token. In particular, they may all= be saying this or only the one who is uttering it, and some may be among i= ts target audience and some not. >>=20 >> Do you mean that "we" can also assume that {le cusku be dei} can include= more than one individual ("We are the Borg") and no individuals outside th= is dialog? >>=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPad >>=20 >> On Jun 18, 2013, at 23:58, la arxokuna wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:19:05 PM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>> gleki, I think you're too vlafi'i happy, for one thing, and nothing sai= d in this entire thread has changed my mind about this all being a non-issu= e. >>>=20 >>> The issue comes only when trying to precisely translate some sentences = into lojban retaining the same level of vagueness. >>> =20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>=20 >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> --=20 >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send = an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> =20 >>> =20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> =20 >> =20 >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > =20 > =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --Apple-Mail-06A23BD7-23FB-4D2D-B18A-F2AE6FADF185 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Vagueness.  We don't= have determined boundaries (incomplete criterion, not more than one criter= ion)

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 19, 2013, at 11:18, la a= rxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@= gmail.com> wrote:

=


On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:44:16 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bord= er-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
Y= es, and even with {lo}.  {cusku} is not {bacru} (and even that can hav= e more than one, hence choruses). Nor need it be nearly as intimate as the = Borg; consider "informed sources said today".
<= div>

Is it ambiguity of "we" or vagueness?
 

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 19, 2013, at = 9:26, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:



On Wednesday, June 19,= 2013 5:57:00 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
But it misses (not commenting on whether = would ever really want to do this).  "we" is clearly plural but says n= othing about how the members of that plurality are related to this nu cusku= , beyond the fact that one member (already in {mi}) is uttering the instant= token.  In particular, they may all be saying this or only the one wh= o is uttering it, and some may be among its target audience and some not.

Do you mean that "we" can al= so assume that {le cusku be dei} can include more than one individual ("We = are the Borg") and no individuals outside this dialog?

=

S= ent from my iPad

On Jun 18, 2013, at 23:58, la arxokuna <<= a>gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:



On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:19:05 PM UTC+4, aio= nys wrote:
gleki, I think you're too= vlafi'i happy, for one thing, and nothing said in this entire thread has c= hanged my mind about this all being a non-issue.

The issue comes only when trying to precisely trans= late some sentences into lojban retaining the same level of vagueness.
 

--
mu'o m= i'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi = patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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