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Subject: Re: [lojban] "we" and masses. A bug in the CLL?
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From: "John E. Clifford" <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 07:39:08 -0500
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 Content preview:  So, {lo za'u cusku be dei }. {no'u} just sounds wrong;it is
    not an identity, merely a predication, probably {poi}. For the rest it is
    over specification in that these other things may or may not be included.
    {lo} does it's usual selection job in context. In particular, lo na'e cusku
    are not to be included, by the nature of the gadri. [...] 
 
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So, {lo za'u cusku be dei }.  {no'u} just sounds wrong;it is not an identit=
y, merely a predication, probably {poi}.  For the rest it is over specifica=
tion in that these other things may or may not be included.  {lo} does it's=
 usual selection job in context.  In particular, lo na'e cusku are not to b=
e included, by the nature of the gadri.=20

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 20, 2013, at 6:31, la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

>=20
>=20
> On Thursday, June 20, 2013 3:16:50 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
> I thought I just did.=20
>=20
>=20
> Where is {dei}  in {lo za'u cusku}. Does "we" include only those who spea=
k or those to whom something is spoken? No.
>=20
> "we" is either {mi no'u za'umei} or {mi jo'u da poi prenu gi'e na'e cusku=
 be dei gi'e na'e te cusku be dei}
>=20
>=20
> Sent from my iPad
>=20
> On Jun 20, 2013, at 0:47, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:19:41 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
>> Oops!  I probably should have said {na'i} (false dichotomy) since "we" i=
s actually neither.  It is, however, contextual, "the salient group of the =
speaker and associate(s)", exactly {lo za'u cusku}, I I think.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Do you think you can give a precise definition of {zo'oi we} in Lojban?
>> --=20
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s "lojban" group.
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n email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> =20
>> =20
>=20
> --=20
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> =20
> =20

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<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>So, {lo za'u cusku be dei=
 }. &nbsp;{no'u} just sounds wrong;it is not an identity, merely a predicat=
ion, probably {poi}. &nbsp;For the rest it is over specification in that th=
ese other things may or may not be included. &nbsp;{lo} does it's usual sel=
ection job in context. &nbsp;In particular, lo na'e cusku are not to be inc=
luded, by the nature of the gadri.<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D=
"-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-compositi=
on-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-col=
or: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">&nbsp;</span></div><div><br>Sent from m=
y iPad</div><div><br>On Jun 20, 2013, at 6:31, la arxokuna &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><br><br>On Thursday=
, June 20, 2013 3:16:50 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left: 1ex;"><div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>I thought I just did.&nbsp=
;<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Where is {=
dei} &nbsp;in {lo za'u cusku}. Does "we" include only those who speak or th=
ose to whom something is spoken? No.</div><div><br></div><div>"we" is eithe=
r {mi no'u za'umei} or {mi jo'u da poi prenu gi'e na'e cusku be dei gi'e na=
'e te cusku be dei}</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft: 1ex;"><div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br=
>On Jun 20, 2013, at 0:47, la arxokuna &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=
=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"wnJeRzM4TC0J">gleki.is...@gmail.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><br><br=
>On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:19:41 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:<blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>Oops! &nbsp;I pro=
bably should have said {na'i} (false dichotomy) since "we" is actually neit=
her. &nbsp;It is, however, contextual, "the salient group of the speaker an=
d associate(s)", exactly {lo za'u cusku}, I I think.<br></div></div></block=
quote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Do you think you can give a precis=
e definition of {zo'oi we} in Lojban?</div>

<p></p>

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&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div></blockquote></div></blockquote>

<p></p>

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&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div></blockquote></body></html>

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&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

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