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A bug in the CLL? References: <8561d566-8f8b-4b46-9e7b-5fdbc1367b33@googlegroups.com> <1371405876.998.YahooMailNeo@web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5a62e3e4-6bad-47c1-b6ad-86639420b7aa@googlegroups.com> <34087CDB-5C29-47F5-9257-D02B91A2502F@yahoo.com> <5958d62e-ea83-400a-8936-1f57aa1580b4@googlegroups.com> <97A72722-A86B-4774-B5A2-187F9129388B@yahoo.com> <50799cc6-dd21-4c1b-9dfb-f4ce0928d0f3@googlegroups.com> <156ead61-3e49-444f-ba1a-c808839fd50d@googlegroups.com> <7E4B1F87-0D2C-4973-9A23-E03427E46515@yahoo.com> <5A6C07CB-C2CA-4A7A-9B4B-D5DAACA61069@yahoo.com> <42d6ef31-3311-4181-b1a9-468271e86ac4@googlegroups.com> <579FEEE0-567D-4896-8391-C68E99ADEFCC@yahoo.com> <042628dd-5308-4d8e-b09c-400c03d5a3f9@googlegroups.com> From: "John E. Clifford" In-Reply-To: <042628dd-5308-4d8e-b09c-400c03d5a3f9@googlegroups.com> Message-Id: <08B4257D-2310-4955-B5D4-E8E1FD5D6A35@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 08:08:37 -0500 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.138.91.213 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-0DFEAF37-53E3-4507-8AC4-DF0691B4E19F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam_score: 1.0 X-Spam_score_int: 10 X-Spam_bar: + X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: An English uncertainty about just who cusku? We know the utterer is in; who else depends on context. But, since this is a first person pronoun, those others cusku this as well (definitional). Sent from my iPad [...] Content analysis details: (1.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (kali9putra[at]yahoo.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD 'From' yahoo.com does not match 'Received' headers 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature --Apple-Mail-0DFEAF37-53E3-4507-8AC4-DF0691B4E19F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 An English uncertainty about just who cusku? We know the utterer is in; who= else depends on context. But, since this is a first person pronoun, those= others cusku this as well (definitional). Sent from my iPad On Jun 20, 2013, at 7:48, la arxokuna wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Thursday, June 20, 2013 4:39:08 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote: > So, {lo za'u cusku be dei }. {no'u} just sounds wrong;it is not an ident= ity, merely a predication, probably {poi}. For the rest it is over specifi= cation in that these other things may or may not be included. {lo} does it= 's usual selection job in context. In particular, lo na'e cusku are not to= be included, by the nature of the gadri.=20 >=20 > Don't you think that your definition contradicts Wiktionary that says tha= t "we=3Dthe speaker and at least one other person" ? It is not said that th= at other persons are to be viewed as speakers. >=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On Jun 20, 2013, at 6:31, la arxokuna wrote: >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Thursday, June 20, 2013 3:16:50 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote: >> I thought I just did.=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Where is {dei} in {lo za'u cusku}. Does "we" include only those who spe= ak or those to whom something is spoken? No. >>=20 >> "we" is either {mi no'u za'umei} or {mi jo'u da poi prenu gi'e na'e cusk= u be dei gi'e na'e te cusku be dei} >>=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPad >>=20 >> On Jun 20, 2013, at 0:47, la arxokuna wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:19:41 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote: >>> Oops! I probably should have said {na'i} (false dichotomy) since "we" = is actually neither. It is, however, contextual, "the salient group of the= speaker and associate(s)", exactly {lo za'u cusku}, I I think. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Do you think you can give a precise definition of {zo'oi we} in Lojban? >>> --=20 >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send = an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> =20 >>> =20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> =20 >> =20 >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > =20 > =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --Apple-Mail-0DFEAF37-53E3-4507-8AC4-DF0691B4E19F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
An English uncertainty ab= out just who cusku? We know the utterer is in; who else depends on context.=  But, since this is a first person pronoun, those others cusku this a= s well (definitional).

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 20, 20= 13, at 7:48, la arxokuna <= gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:



On Thursday, June 20, 2013 4:39:08 PM UTC+4, = clifford wrote:
So, {lo za'u cusku be dei }.  {no'u} just sounds wrong;= it is not an identity, merely a predication, probably {poi}.  For the = rest it is over specification in that these other things may or may not be = included.  {lo} does it's usual selection job in context.  In par= ticular, lo na'e cusku are not to be included, by the nature of the gadri.<= span> 

Don't you th= ink that your definition contradicts Wiktionary that says that "we=3Dthe sp= eaker and at least one other person" ? It is not said that that other perso= ns are to be viewed as speakers.


Sent from my iPad<= /div>

On Jun 20, 2013, at 6:31, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@g= mail.com> wrote:

<= div>

On Thursday, June 20, 2013 3:16:50 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
I though= t I just did. 


Where is {dei}  in {lo za'u cusku}. Does "we" include only tho= se who speak or those to whom something is spoken? No.

=
"we" is either {mi no'u za'umei} or {mi jo'u da poi prenu gi'e na'e cu= sku be dei gi'e na'e te cusku be dei}


Sent from my iPad<= /div>

On Jun 20, 2013, at 0:47, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmai= l.com> wrote:



On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:19:41 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
Oops! &nb= sp;I probably should have said {na'i} (false dichotomy) since "we" is actua= lly neither.  It is, however, contextual, "the salient group of the sp= eaker and associate(s)", exactly {lo za'u cusku}, I I think.


Do you think you can give = a precise definition of {zo'oi we} in Lojban?

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