Received: from mail-wi0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]:44117) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Uq9I7-0000jV-35 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:55:01 -0700 Received: by mail-wi0-f189.google.com with SMTP id k10sf208128wiv.16 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:54:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5F1pSKNYuZLWT4dPJ9LMWvorFQMEwJBG+7K25bxFfDY=; b=NORdWmestDdcNZcbfKFlPXVmm3HVdHoP64yE+5xVMZommqudaNJKSR/a1LQ5v2LaO5 5RzH7cB4JDGSXzxf0QB0b8WxbrqPHH3M6sIrCvQEKLBupRQWlwtIe5A2XOqa/EbrGfZC B8bzhBJI9CzAHhuclsDjXU0xRB/o2wpUhiAQZHQaYEd/YXnXy9y/HZmK60mztSRnJzqI hOSG1w7t8Tfn9WEpjYj/hrMGvAJrV6ltAn1UgSWzQU6BnmB81mLDCIlGhbB1PJwG6TJn 2KWyt057NTk5Qd+i9Tary0AmESlLWrxutkCnvPtwSo4KHwP8uGcRbq6AaCrSmoov3p6b fGwA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5F1pSKNYuZLWT4dPJ9LMWvorFQMEwJBG+7K25bxFfDY=; b=0pvd2Tlkr5rnFf+MZNVrA2ChJmnIhhDRBgNIif2vFsUSpzTC3DiBNbNbVwhAqXz/Ph hqayHWCiqhfMmYju+J/33jbdGON3Y4EUqksiRtTvfvvv5vrJTuI/odIR9XTTR/mpk41X 27AxMuXiOf1jg9Gwmvv6izQ9k0Qmi61iUYXd72WlCJlLKq0ROwkbQcZ711kztyF6VeO7 Xuim6itjJmRXvaDBEghsdMLqNWkjhOWSrZprierV6ncRVZ6vpTs8KurjxSvPevRNAgsh 04CXmrZ+vaZFgO0f3aA6X9Cja8sKQQNOwOAphKAJRoSiFSfxRjQf5zyPUFnVnn7cpl8u HqgA== X-Received: by 10.180.207.74 with SMTP id lu10mr9401wic.4.1371851676575; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:54:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.13.205 with SMTP id j13ls469235wic.5.canary; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.204.240.14 with SMTP id ky14mr1680986bkb.0.1371851674494; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x229.google.com (mail-la0-x229.google.com [2a00:1450:4010:c03::229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cm16si364501bkb.0.2013.06.21.14.54.34 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::229 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c03::229; Received: by mail-la0-f41.google.com with SMTP id fn20so7990237lab.0 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.131.103 with SMTP id ol7mr8200103lbb.70.1371851674169; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.92.211 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:54:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5d7f238f-ff93-40ab-af24-fc6320d91b23@googlegroups.com> References: <5d7f238f-ff93-40ab-af24-fc6320d91b23@googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 15:54:34 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo} From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a86deb93ac504dfb11b9f X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7b3a86deb93ac504dfb11b9f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:04 PM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 <= volishavas@gmail.com>wrote: > Hi! If I want to say "I have a car. The car is white.": > (I'm interested only in differences between {le} and {lo}.) > 1. with {le}: mi ponse le karce .i le karce cu blabi > 2. with {lo}: mi ponse lo karce .i lo karce cu blabi > I think the first choice is better. Am I right? > Let me put it this way: You're not wrong. It's perfectly fine to use {le} instead of {lo}, but I wouldn't myself say it's better to. I also wouldn't say it's worse to. As long as the thing you're talking about can be the x1 of whatever you're using to describe it (i.e. something you are calling {lo ve klama} must be a means of transportation), {lo} is never wrong, so when in doubt, use {lo}= . > =D0=D1=D4=CE=C9=C3=C1, 21 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 17:26:12 UTC+6 =D0=CF= =CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 .arpis. =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC: >> >> {le} is what you say when you have a particular thing in mind or when yo= u >> want to indicate that the thing you're talking about isn't necessarily a >> {broda}; {lo} is what you say whenever you don't want to indicate the >> previous fact. Most people use {le} for "the", but I think this is malgl= i. >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:29 AM, la arxokuna wrot= e: >> >>> mi'a got a request to explain the difference between {lo} and {le} with >>> good examples from English. The person who is asking for that is not >>> satisfied with what is described in BPFK sections of lojban.org. Please >>> help. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+un...@**googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group/lojban >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out >>> . >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alex R >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --047d7b3a86deb93ac504dfb11b9f Content-Type: text/html; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:04 PM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF= =CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 <volishavas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi! If I want to say "I have a car. The car is white.":
(I'= ;m interested only in differences between {le} and {lo}.)
1. with {le}: = mi ponse le karce .i le karce cu blabi
2. with {lo}: mi ponse lo karce .= i lo karce cu blabi
I think the first choice is better. Am I right?

Le= t me put it this way: You're not wrong. It's perfectly fine to use = {le} instead of {lo}, but I wouldn't myself say it's better to. I a= lso wouldn't say it's worse to.

As long as the thing you're talking about can be the x1 of whatever= you're using to describe it (i.e. something you are calling {lo ve kla= ma} must be a means of transportation), {lo} is never wrong, so when in dou= bt, use {lo}.
=9A
=D0=D1=D4=CE=C9=C3=C1, 21 =C9=C0=CE= =D1 2013=9A=C7., 17:26:12 UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 .arpis= . =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:
{le} is what you say when you have a par= ticular thing in mind or when you want to indicate that the thing you'r= e talking about isn't necessarily a {broda}; {lo} is what you say whene= ver you don't want to indicate the previous fact. Most people use {le} = for "the", but I think this is malgli.


On Fr= i, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:29 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is..= .@gmail.com> wrote:
mi'a got a reque= st to explain the difference between {lo} and {le} with good examples from = English. The person who is asking for that is not satisfied with what is de= scribed in BPFK sections of lojban.org. Please help.

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=9A



--
=9A=9A = =9A =9A =9A =9AAlex R

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=9A
=9A



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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