Received: from mail-qa0-f56.google.com ([209.85.216.56]:56743) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UqBF0-0001IO-Vu for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:59:52 -0700 Received: by mail-qa0-f56.google.com with SMTP id cd7sf442241qab.1 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:59:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=B9pqzIhQaG3E0iumghwGVXqB7JEqW82tm0JrcH8/1TE=; b=b3fYS0Gdw8WG/yKCGuU1ZNj3TKss5fezReXd344I75IrgcX7eA2KUdUyJejr2d1KRY tx4yktVsgHzficXS9EzpXu46/vJCj4uswak0FT5rvqUZjeJeBasX+RXz1urvKK1jwT27 xK40iwALGJaq/nR4WYGf5LSPrJ5Ge+qiUcjAvCi8Tks+XmvmA+wPzpZGN/+c9hrM5Pjb v0YTRaX8x2qA9WG7YFD+EHlyVFBMkADs3/moMMGTYeJDr9dRO1fhvfN2gwv9aGmmKC5K FpWHgTnvi6NNzkzxCHEa8Te30w/yGH7vj2GfIhFZFjlU1PLJ6nqu/NvGmEk8nfKK51Cp iimQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=B9pqzIhQaG3E0iumghwGVXqB7JEqW82tm0JrcH8/1TE=; b=kUd9ghNWzVa+njh1/LgxgH2J8FmGTe9Vgi3AEk5N60FdhSeEhn22onjoV4UnDo8L9t wFd/DEoeUsCjOi6jOVWWGVVx51dcLZtw9P6wQGSaoSw2G50muoHcfjikVub4q3d/Hd2k rzG5WQZqnoXMQXCu6uFenjWUYedQwUwa39QY5iNT+tVYEMvxR5VwEHlN3II//d2etGnJ FQOmTrDyQJ7ZVFO+a5Wq4B2jXmGIbAJmJ6lOtq24KevIuhun06wt4Dhz5znkBSKtQnwE WKOYkewcH48/waTD5nUF/2EM3vZfFUQtYKqa1//oiW8Rt66+M6Pgw3mtdWsL+uVVAeK7 fWIg== X-Received: by 10.49.47.10 with SMTP id z10mr348809qem.7.1371859176487; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:59:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.117.231 with SMTP id kh7ls1243895qeb.26.gmail; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:59:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.59.205 with SMTP id m13mr15420097qah.7.1371859175809; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.181.75 with SMTP id bx11msqab; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 15:51:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.15.74 with SMTP id v10mr340330qec.16.1371855101929; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 15:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 15:51:41 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?B?0JDQvdCw0YLQvtC70LjQuSDQk9Cw0YjQtdCy?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <5d7f238f-ff93-40ab-af24-fc6320d91b23@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo} MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: volishavas@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_896_5536154.1371855101532" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_896_5536154.1371855101532 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't worry just about the case. But I want to know precise distinction= =20 between using {le} and {lo}. Yes, I'm Russian, but it doesn't mean anything= =20 in the way of Lojban. From http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri I understood {lo} is= =20 anything, and {le} is {lo} that I have in my mind in the moment of=20 speaking. For example, mi ba terve'u lo karce - cuz right now I don't have in my mind image of my= =20 future car I'll want, but mi ca ca'a ponse le karce And if you're going to say that using {mi ca ca'a ponse lo karce} is=20 perfectly well, then I might ask why even {le} exists in Lojban. =D3=D5=C2=C2=CF=D4=C1, 22 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 3:54:34 UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC= =D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 aionys =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC: > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:04 PM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7= > > wrote: > >> Hi! If I want to say "I have a car. The car is white.": >> (I'm interested only in differences between {le} and {lo}.) >> 1. with {le}: mi ponse le karce .i le karce cu blabi >> 2. with {lo}: mi ponse lo karce .i lo karce cu blabi >> I think the first choice is better. Am I right? >> > > Let me put it this way: You're not wrong. It's perfectly fine to use {le}= =20 > instead of {lo}, but I wouldn't myself say it's better to. I also wouldn'= t=20 > say it's worse to. > > As long as the thing you're talking about can be the x1 of whatever you'r= e=20 > using to describe it (i.e. something you are calling {lo ve klama} must b= e=20 > a means of transportation), {lo} is never wrong, so when in doubt, use {l= o}. > =20 > >> =D0=D1=D4=CE=C9=C3=C1, 21 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 17:26:12 UTC+6 =D0=CF= =CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 .arpis. =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC: >>> >>> {le} is what you say when you have a particular thing in mind or when= =20 >>> you want to indicate that the thing you're talking about isn't necessar= ily=20 >>> a {broda}; {lo} is what you say whenever you don't want to indicate the= =20 >>> previous fact. Most people use {le} for "the", but I think this is malg= li. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:29 AM, la arxokuna wro= te: >>> >>>> mi'a got a request to explain the difference between {lo} and {le} wit= h=20 >>>> good examples from English. The person who is asking for that is not= =20 >>>> satisfied with what is described in BPFK sections of lojban.org.=20 >>>> Please help. >>>> =20 >>>> --=20 >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= =20 >>>> an email to lojban+un...@**googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group/lojban >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out >>>> . >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --=20 >>> Alex R >>> =20 >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n=20 >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> =20 >> =20 >> > > > > --=20 > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_896_5536154.1371855101532 Content-Type: text/html; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't worry just about the case. But I want to know precise distinction b= etween using {le} and {lo}. Yes, I'm Russian, but it doesn't mean anything = in the way of Lojban.

From http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3= A+gadri I understood {lo} is anything, and {le} is {lo} that I have in my m= ind in the moment of speaking. For example,

mi ba terve'u lo karce -= cuz right now I don't have in my mind image of my future car I'll want, bu= t
mi ca ca'a ponse le karce

And if you're going to say that using= {mi ca ca'a ponse lo karce} is perfectly well, then I might ask why even {= le} exists in Lojban.

=D3=D5=C2=C2=CF=D4=C1, 22 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013&nb= sp;=C7., 3:54:34 UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 aionys =CE=C1= =D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:04 PM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7= =C1=DB=C5=D7 <volis...@gmail.com> = wrote:
Hi! If I want to say "I have a car. The car is white.":
(I'm interested = only in differences between {le} and {lo}.)
1. with {le}: mi ponse le ka= rce .i le karce cu blabi
2. with {lo}: mi ponse lo karce .i lo karce cu = blabi
I think the first choice is better. Am I right?

Le= t me put it this way: You're not wrong. It's perfectly fine to use {le} ins= tead of {lo}, but I wouldn't myself say it's better to. I also wouldn't say= it's worse to.

As long as the thing you're talking about can be the x1 of whatever you= 're using to describe it (i.e. something you are calling {lo ve klama} must= be a means of transportation), {lo} is never wrong, so when in doubt, use = {lo}.
 
=D0=D1=D4=CE=C9=C3=C1, 21 =C9=C0= =CE=D1 2013 =C7., 17:26:12 UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 = .arpis. =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:
{le} is what you say when you have a particular thing= in mind or when you want to indicate that the thing you're talking about i= sn't necessarily a {broda}; {lo} is what you say whenever you don't want to= indicate the previous fact. Most people use {le} for "the", but I think th= is is malgli.


On Fri, Jun 21, 20= 13 at 5:29 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.



--
      =    Alex R



--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
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