Received: from mail-ea0-f184.google.com ([209.85.215.184]:38860) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UqKVj-0003U9-Li for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 02:53:47 -0700 Received: by mail-ea0-f184.google.com with SMTP id m14sf1693453eaj.21 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 02:53:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:x-authenticated:x-provags-id:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-y-gmx-trusted:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SMxFUwrRdjLBk0F7vWYjjY4WxiTQPtM29H/q6Lj6uX0=; b=n4yDUVTfzBrRM09Efu84LDxbfXEZ8Xe7LR+0n1UKQf7iD7P0GeKQcLjz+il4vRRHvx QdgIuQLFTBnwRSbr6z5Vu0IvsK7e1VrEuOCbPCYi5c16VdLIyzfDSdvYyLtRY9mAsaX/ 29IBYmqGIeA0tzizJrBrCsGNbIUy9wygXXX7MqkeyGsnSyP+ppkWig0n/OryJHiPG1sC KTJ/qLoeTIWyk83G+hkdjp8LrRO/5N8nIeVwY3aiono4pec5jv9ZtNB5ys0d+tr2FMP8 bmp7ggab3NGnh+GqLqyLjaiqx+yJIRbGrqzhTuvqgjPkwfdSv1hRi95rTX6RyHNGHNO9 lB8w== X-Received: by 10.180.91.197 with SMTP id cg5mr58265wib.9.1371894808037; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 02:53:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.72.178 with SMTP id e18ls521122wiv.4.canary; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 02:53:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.15.25.1 with SMTP id k1mr20242101eeu.6.1371894807429; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 02:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net. [212.227.17.22]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id bk51si1581180eeb.0.2013.06.22.02.53.27 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 02:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.22 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.17.22; Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.33]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Le7py-1UVWQN0ovc-00pr1W for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 11:53:27 +0200 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 22 Jun 2013 09:53:27 -0000 Received: from p5DDC4ECC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.2.100]) [93.220.78.204] by mail.gmx.net (mp033) with SMTP; 22 Jun 2013 11:53:27 +0200 X-Authenticated: #54293076 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18b8LgzIiAbqL8DJ+K5jZn4SzNTWW2pDCJUHlXokK kJ15dwCpfsWYSH Message-ID: <51C57416.8050202@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 11:53:26 +0200 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo} References: <5d7f238f-ff93-40ab-af24-fc6320d91b23@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.22 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / la'o me. =D0=90=D0=BD=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=BE=D0=BB=D0=B8=D0=B9 =D0=93=D0=B0=D1= =88=D0=B5=D0=B2 .me cusku di'e > I don't worry just about the case. But I want to know precise > distinction between using {le} and {lo}. Yes, I'm Russian, but it > doesn't mean anything in the way of Lojban. > > From http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri I understood {lo} > is anything, and {le} is {lo} that I have in my mind in the moment of > speaking. For example, > > mi ba terve'u lo karce - cuz right now I don't have in my mind image of > my future car I'll want, but > mi ca ca'a ponse le karce > > And if you're going to say that using {mi ca ca'a ponse lo karce} is > perfectly well, then I might ask why even {le} exists in Lojban. You can always use {lo}. You have the option to use {le} when you think=20 that explicitly marking specificity is necessary. {lo} is generic, but, unlike English, this does not make it wrong to use=20 {lo} when you have specific referents in mind. When you own a specific=20 car, it's also true that you own "any or some" car. {lo} is vague and=20 therefore always applicable. If you don't care about the specificity=20 distinction, then you don't need to use {le}, but if you do, then you can. mu'o mi'e la selpa'i --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.