Received: from mail-pb0-f64.google.com ([209.85.160.64]:63506) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UqNWv-0004Vg-2n for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:07:06 -0700 Received: by mail-pb0-f64.google.com with SMTP id uo1sf2879020pbc.29 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:06:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:x-authenticated:x-provags-id:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-y-gmx-trusted:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5USzWfRwvwra0FrnogQb+Vw0DySJUprWE5glkx2Mnlg=; b=Q4Gawn3jY9Zvo3N+07zT4HwCun8YqVI6rpFLzEJyw0tnmWOq0SK2IY+nHPZIE/TceV ELbIEQ4b7WQsOJOupElKLHPPvERslutKlUcKlWcVqAuxhuYuxjcOsmLjJYN4LjwEXOtc QxVK97qOHtbzDRdBV7Ib32AkYPncQvdIl1NCkbL481vF1drp/vHOELr8SmbW28OE7yIV rzHGRqKA7v3ar0G26CT7gOIQJBtbeFZ5VLg4PjefOZyAwnWnbGE4zJgq5OsHHoH9ZUOz 2jS86/t9DGo544gJMA534SovYO+m9cjEjV0ZH6OcDe/Zw+Og/frpFcsyij8y575UxjSX GF8A== X-Received: by 10.49.12.141 with SMTP id y13mr377581qeb.41.1371906414359; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:06:54 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.24.138 with SMTP id u10ls1407373qef.75.gmail; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:06:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.86.200 with SMTP id t8mr17978768qal.0.1371906413702; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net. [212.227.15.19]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id i8si1129534qcv.1.2013.06.22.06.06.53 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.15.19 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.15.19; Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.33]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lse5X-1UAD7k03K5-012KvZ for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 15:06:53 +0200 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 22 Jun 2013 13:06:52 -0000 Received: from p5DDC4ECC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.2.100]) [93.220.78.204] by mail.gmx.net (mp033) with SMTP; 22 Jun 2013 15:06:52 +0200 X-Authenticated: #54293076 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18GeM1dO5kGbFL68BG0iNJSJIbBnzLRlCIQFcpSKs AsA4jG+aDWgSrW Message-ID: <51C5A16C.9060702@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 15:06:52 +0200 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo} References: <5d7f238f-ff93-40ab-af24-fc6320d91b23@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.15.19 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / la .arpis. cu cusku di'e > Better than the second choice, I'd probably use > 1. {mi ponse lo karce .i ky blabi} or > 2. {mi ponse lo karce noi blabi} or even > 3. {lo karce ge se ponse mi gi blabi}. Or even: (4) mi ponse lo karce .i blabi (sort of literally: "I own Car. Whites.")[1] "I own a car. It is white." While this is not entirely an example of {le} vs {lo}, it's still a very common way to say it, and it shows that even this level of vagueness is appropriate. If stating no sumti at all is sufficient, then surely {lo karce} is, too. mu'o mi'e la selpa'i -- [1]: I feel this is how Lojban should be translated into English, as it's the only way to convey the vagueness inherent in the Lojban. "Car" instead of "a car" or "the car" both of which would arbitrarily favor a reading that the Lojban does not force, and "whites" as a verb, because {blabi} *is* a verb, as is every Lojban predicate. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.