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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:45:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}
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This seems essentially backward prractice to me.=C2=A0 {lo karce} refers to=
 the salient car(s).=C2=A0 After it has been used o9nce, that forces the ca=
r(s) there referred to to be the salient ones. So, a second {lo karce} will=
 refer to it/them again, barring a {bi'u}.=C2=A0=20


________________________________
 From: Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}
=20

On Friday, June 21, 2013 13:04:52 =D0=90=D0=BD=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=BE=D0=BB=D0=
=B8=D0=B9 =D0=93=D0=B0=D1=88=D0=B5=D0=B2 wrote:
> Hi! If I want to say "I have a car. The car is white.":
> (I'm interested only in differences between {le} and {lo}.)
> 1. with {le}: mi ponse le karce .i le karce cu blabi
> 2. with {lo}: mi ponse lo karce .i lo karce cu blabi
> I think the first choice is better. Am I right?

I would use "le" because I have a specific car in mind, namely mine. But bo=
th=20
are correct. The second "lo karce" in the second sentence could just as eas=
ily=20
refer to another car though. Use "bi'unai" to mark that the car has been=20
mentioned before, or "bi'u" to mark that it hasn't. (I didn't use "bi'unai"=
=20
the second time the boat occurred in the song because it didn't fit.)

mi ponse lo xunre karce .i lo karce cu blabi
.i mi ponse lo karce .i lo bi'unai karce cu xunre

As Russian doesn't have an article, I suggest you just use "lo" and not wor=
ry=20
about it, until it starts making sense. Getting the article right is not as=
=20
important in Lojban as it is in English.

Pierre
--=20
lo ponse be lo mruli ku po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko

--=20
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">This seems essentiall=
y backward prractice to me.&nbsp; {lo karce} refers to the salient car(s).&=
nbsp; After it has been used o9nce, that forces the car(s) there referred t=
o to be the salient ones. So, a second {lo karce} will refer to it/them aga=
in, barring a {bi'u}.&nbsp; <br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div>=
  <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-=
size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, =
serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=3D"=
Arial" size=3D"2"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Pi=
erre Abbat &lt;phma@bezitopo.org&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bol=
d;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weig=
ht: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, June 21, 2013 4:44 PM<br> <b><span
 style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Please, the =
best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_co=
ntainer"><br>
On Friday, June 21, 2013 13:04:52 =D0=90=D0=BD=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=BE=D0=BB=D0=
=B8=D0=B9 =D0=93=D0=B0=D1=88=D0=B5=D0=B2 wrote:<br>&gt; Hi! If I want to sa=
y "I have a car. The car is white.":<br>&gt; (I'm interested only in differ=
ences between {le} and {lo}.)<br>&gt; 1. with {le}: mi ponse le karce .i le=
 karce cu blabi<br>&gt; 2. with {lo}: mi ponse lo karce .i lo karce cu blab=
i<br>&gt; I think the first choice is better. Am I right?<br><br>I would us=
e "le" because I have a specific car in mind, namely mine. But both <br>are=
 correct. The second "lo karce" in the second sentence could just as easily=
 <br>refer to another car though. Use "bi'unai" to mark that the car has be=
en <br>mentioned before, or "bi'u" to mark that it hasn't. (I didn't use "b=
i'unai" <br>the second time the boat occurred in the song because it didn't=
 fit.)<br><br>mi ponse lo xunre karce .i lo karce cu blabi<br>.i mi ponse l=
o karce .i lo bi'unai karce cu xunre<br><br>As Russian doesn't have an arti=
cle, I suggest you just use "lo" and not worry
 <br>about it, until it starts making sense. Getting the article right is n=
ot as <br>important in Lojban as it is in English.<br><br>Pierre<br>-- <br>=
lo ponse be lo mruli ku po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko<br><br>-- <br>You =
received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojb=
an" group.<br>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from=
 it, send an email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.=
com" href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.=
com</a>.<br>To post to this group, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojba=
n@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegr=
oups.com</a>.<br>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.=
<br>For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt=
_out" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br><b=
r><br><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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