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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:49:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}
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I am not sure about the propriety of subjectless sentences (other than obse=
rvatives) in Lojban, though they seem a natural development in this usage.=
=A0 In any case, the use of (unofficial) anaphoric pronouns (or even offici=
al ones, if they work, as they would here) or joining sentences at some poi=
nt seem more natural repeated full noun phrases in most contexts.


________________________________
 From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}
=20

la .arpis. cu cusku di'e
> Better than the second choice, I'd probably use
> 1. {mi ponse lo karce .i ky blabi} or
> 2. {mi ponse lo karce noi blabi} or even
> 3. {lo karce ge se ponse mi gi blabi}.

Or even:

=A0=A0=A0 (4) mi ponse lo karce .i blabi
=A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 (sort of literally: "I own Car. Whites.")[1]
=A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 "I own a car. It is white."

While this is not entirely an example of {le} vs {lo}, it's still a very co=
mmon way to say it, and it shows that even this level of vagueness is appro=
priate. If stating no sumti at all is sufficient, then surely {lo karce} is=
, too.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--
[1]: I feel this is how Lojban should be translated into English, as it's t=
he only way to convey the vagueness inherent in the Lojban. "Car" instead o=
f "a car" or "the car" both of which would arbitrarily favor a reading that=
 the Lojban does not force, and "whites" as a verb, because {blabi} *is* a =
verb, as is every Lojban predicate.

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">I am not sure about t=
he propriety of subjectless sentences (other than observatives) in Lojban, =
though they seem a natural development in this usage.&nbsp; In any case, th=
e use of (unofficial) anaphoric pronouns (or even official ones, if they wo=
rk, as they would here) or joining sentences at some point seem more natura=
l repeated full noun phrases in most contexts.<br><div><span><br></span></d=
iv><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, t=
imes, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman,=
 new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1=
">  <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">F=
rom:</span></b> selpa'i &lt;seladwa@gmx.de&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-w=
eight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D=
"font-weight:
 bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, June 22, 2013 8:06 AM<br> <b><span style=
=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Please, the best e=
xplanation of {le} vs. {lo}<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_containe=
r"><br>
la .arpis. cu cusku di'e<br>&gt; Better than the second choice, I'd probabl=
y use<br>&gt; 1. {mi ponse lo karce .i ky blabi} or<br>&gt; 2. {mi ponse lo=
 karce noi blabi} or even<br>&gt; 3. {lo karce ge se ponse mi gi blabi}.<br=
><br>Or even:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (4) mi ponse lo karce .i blabi<br>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (sort of literally: "I own Car. Whites.")[1=
]<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "I own a car. It is white."<br><br>Wh=
ile this is not entirely an example of {le} vs {lo}, it's still a very comm=
on way to say it, and it shows that even this level of vagueness is appropr=
iate. If stating no sumti at all is sufficient, then surely {lo karce} is, =
too.<br><br>mu'o mi'e la selpa'i<br><br>--<br>[1]: I feel this is how Lojba=
n should be translated into English, as it's the only way to convey the vag=
ueness inherent in the Lojban. "Car" instead of "a car" or "the car" both o=
f which would arbitrarily favor a reading that the Lojban does not
 force, and "whites" as a verb, because {blabi} *is* a verb, as is every Lo=
jban predicate.<br><br>-- You received this message because you are subscri=
bed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<br>To unsubscribe from this group =
and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"ma=
ilto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.=
com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>To post to this group, send email=
 to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@goo=
glegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>Visit this group at http://g=
roups.google.com/group/lojban.<br>For more options, visit <a href=3D"https:=
//groups.google.com/groups/opt_out" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google=
.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br><br><br><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></b=
ody></html>

<p></p>

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&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

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