Received: from mail-wg0-f56.google.com ([74.125.82.56]:43247) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UqOam-0005Zl-CV for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 07:15:10 -0700 Received: by mail-wg0-f56.google.com with SMTP id k14sf1718989wgh.11 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 07:14:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:x-authenticated:x-provags-id:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-y-gmx-trusted:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ph/3CgJzphV3il8FoZEhxJTIACRDNtLyYtj4OkrqF6Y=; b=Z/nwjryrIib/wTj9YlhNWk8oxGiTZpQU4yafSZYR7xeIvkgwJVFfBmwJafugpPkNl/ FU9U1xBEkyxnCzMd4a/Ystlw/ktJH0fUxQfzqeU/pU8aD/Sh0KuCMyUxkpNsB+YaylTt PVNiRl3tox//9SDlyWWQtjl/Lx0yOIgneoCGRO4Peg/LAemJ5MfAYyJUtjAC12E6+rgz lgmuEuOYwANAJjLDE5OxQtjR4CIpXBPh5tzWQYalOCsSXHyPyKlaTzFeN2SXIhjge1hm ZPTUgON/Kdc0cD6TcTygm6G4CnSDiqdhyjD2KjkYCPFblZn9r5Gezkp8QUxyQ70NO2nY mVMg== X-Received: by 10.180.91.74 with SMTP id cc10mr76657wib.0.1371910496637; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 07:14:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.14.7 with SMTP id l7ls551056wic.38.canary; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 07:14:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.14.214.8 with SMTP id b8mr18061108eep.1.1371910495866; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 07:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net. [212.227.17.22]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id ci6si1714404eeb.1.2013.06.22.07.14.55 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 07:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.22 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.17.22; Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.32]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MCvpV-1UzR9A2KOJ-009fpm for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 16:14:55 +0200 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 22 Jun 2013 14:14:55 -0000 Received: from p5DDC4ECC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.2.100]) [93.220.78.204] by mail.gmx.net (mp032) with SMTP; 22 Jun 2013 16:14:55 +0200 X-Authenticated: #54293076 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19vCRs7ClRvwWxhCRMK9kUsNjUMKFG29oM1KbZh2S KbwOWGtvIZw0E5 Message-ID: <51C5B15F.8070903@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 16:14:55 +0200 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo} References: <5d7f238f-ff93-40ab-af24-fc6320d91b23@googlegroups.com> <17821802.qV9RLdx1PL@caracal> <1371908730.25787.YahooMailNeo@web184404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1371908730.25787.YahooMailNeo@web184404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.22 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e > This seems essentially backward prractice to me. {lo karce} refers to > the salient car(s). After it has been used o9nce, that forces the > car(s) there referred to to be the salient ones. It doesn't have to, however. Consider: "I just saw a dog. Dogs are so cute!" mi pu zi viska lo gerku .i lo gerku cu tai ci'omle Nothing forbids one to use {lo} twice with different referents each time. (Or one could say that the referent is always the same, it's Dog.) It might not be super obvious in such a case if the second {lo gerku} is the same as the one I just saw, but it's nevertheless "legal" to say it like that. mu'o mi'e la selpa'i -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.