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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 08:05:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}
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Too true.=A0 A fuss-budget would insist that there needs to be a notice of =
change of salience to make a move of this sort.=A0 It might, of course, be =
tone of voice in spoken usage, but in written it needs to be something more=
 (or maybe less).=A0 So, we have {bi'u} for the second {lo gerku}, or we ma=
rk the second sentence as a generalization,=A0 so the reference more or les=
s automatically shifts to the supremum.=A0 I think it is generally more lik=
ely that using {lo greku} again so soon -- rather than an anaphoric pronoun=
 or a sentence join -- signals that something other than simple continuatio=
n is going on.=A0 That is part of the reason that the earlier examples in t=
his thread seemed so difficult. they were unnatural in their intended meani=
ng.


________________________________
 From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}
=20

la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e
> This seems essentially backward prractice to me.=A0 {lo karce} refers to
> the salient car(s).=A0 After it has been used o9nce, that forces the
> car(s) there referred to to be the salient ones.

It doesn't have to, however. Consider:

=A0=A0=A0 "I just saw a dog. Dogs are so cute!"
=A0=A0=A0 mi pu zi viska lo gerku .i lo gerku cu tai ci'omle

Nothing forbids one to use {lo} twice with different referents each time. (=
Or one could say that the referent is always the same, it's Dog.)

It might not be super obvious in such a case if the second {lo gerku} is th=
e same as the one I just saw, but it's nevertheless "legal" to say it like =
that.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

=A0=A0=A0=20


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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Too true.&=
nbsp; A fuss-budget would insist that there needs to be a notice of change =
of salience to make a move of this sort.&nbsp; It might, of course, be tone=
 of voice in spoken usage, but in written it needs to be something more (or=
 maybe less).&nbsp; So, we have {bi'u} for the second {lo gerku}, or we mar=
k the second sentence as a generalization,&nbsp; so the reference more or l=
ess automatically shifts to the supremum.&nbsp; I think it is generally mor=
e likely that using {lo greku} again so soon -- rather than an anaphoric pr=
onoun or a sentence join -- signals that something other than simple contin=
uation is going on.&nbsp; That is part of the reason that the earlier examp=
les in this thread seemed so difficult. they were unnatural in their intend=
ed meaning.<br></span></div><div><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family:
 times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"=
font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> <b><span =
style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> selpa'i &lt;seladwa@gmx.de&gt;=
<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegrou=
ps.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday=
, June 22, 2013 9:14 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:<=
/span></b> Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}<br> <=
/font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br>
la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e<br>&gt; This seems essentially backward prractice =
to me.&nbsp; {lo karce} refers to<br>&gt; the salient car(s).&nbsp; After i=
t has been used o9nce, that forces the<br>&gt; car(s) there referred to to =
be the salient ones.<br><br>It doesn't have to, however. Consider:<br><br>&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "I just saw a dog. Dogs are so cute!"<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; mi pu zi viska lo gerku .i lo gerku cu tai ci'omle<br><br>Nothing forbid=
s one to use {lo} twice with different referents each time. (Or one could s=
ay that the referent is always the same, it's Dog.)<br><br>It might not be =
super obvious in such a case if the second {lo gerku} is the same as the on=
e I just saw, but it's nevertheless "legal" to say it like that.<br><br>mu'=
o mi'e la selpa'i<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br><br><br>-- You received thi=
s message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<b=
r>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
 send an email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com"=
 href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<=
/a>.<br>To post to this group, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@go=
oglegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups=
.com</a>.<br>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.<br>=
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br><br><b=
r><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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