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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 11:11:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}
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If you find a Trobriand Islander trained in Nyaya-Vaisheshika metaphysics a=
nd Neo-Platonism, I suppose the Dog sense would be intelligible, otherwise,=
 probably not. None of xorxes, &, or me has ever made it make sense.

Tenses can be used as tags and even interpreted in their normal use as such=
, but that does not mean -- I don't think -- that BAI, normal tags, can be =
used as "tenses".=A0 I wouldn't have thought of English "so" as comparative=
 all on its own, but merely an intensifier.=A0 But, on the other hand, I do=
n't know how to say this "so (oooo)" in Lojban otherwise (I was thinking of=
 gliding on the /o/ of {ci'omle} as the reason for preferring it to {citmle=
}).

"Compositionality only gets one so far."=A0 Lord, how I wish Logjammers wou=
ld take that to heart.

If folks understand Dog, then they should get "the relevant chunk/avatar of=
 Dog".


________________________________
 From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}
=20

la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e
> "selbri tag"?=A0 not CLL,

The concept (though maybe not the term) is CLL. Most occurences of tenses f=
or example use selbri tags: {mi pu klama} has a selbri tag which (implicitl=
y) tags {zo'e}. It means "Before zo'e, I go".

> but, that aside, what does it means: "they are
> cute (to me) (in some respect) like (something or other)"=A0 "sorta cute?=
"

"Dogs are _so_ cute."

{tai} compares, like English "so". In this case, what it compares the bridi=
 to is left up to context.

> Problem was that I couldn't easily get from "young beautiful" to "cute":
> "young" fits, "beautiful" not so much.=A0 But then, I was never a fan of
> compositional definitions anyhow, so I'll stick with what I said.

It's not easy to find a better lujvo. Compositionality only gets one so far=
.

> But the explanation according to which Dog is what {lo gerku} really
> means is much more complicated (not to mention based on more implausible
> assumptions) than the perfectly straightforward one, even in its
> mathematical form.

Could be, but different people think in different ways. What seems complica=
ted to one person might seem more intuitive to another, and vice versa.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">If you find a Trobria=
nd Islander trained in Nyaya-Vaisheshika metaphysics and Neo-Platonism, I s=
uppose the Dog sense would be intelligible, otherwise, probably not. None o=
f xorxes, &amp;, or me has ever made it make sense.<br><br>Tenses can be us=
ed as tags and even interpreted in their normal use as such, but that does =
not mean -- I don't think -- that BAI, normal tags, can be used as "tenses"=
.&nbsp; I wouldn't have thought of English "so" as comparative all on its o=
wn, but merely an intensifier.&nbsp; But, on the other hand, I don't know h=
ow to say this "so (oooo)" in Lojban otherwise (I was thinking of gliding o=
n the /o/ of {ci'omle} as the reason for preferring it to {citmle}).<br><br=
>"Compositionality only gets one so far."&nbsp; Lord, how I wish Logjammers=
 would take that to heart.<br><br>If folks understand Dog, then they
 should get "the relevant chunk/avatar of Dog".<br><div><br></div>  <div st=
yle=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12p=
t;"> <div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; fo=
nt-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1">  <font face=3D"Arial" si=
ze=3D"2"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> selpa'i &lt=
;seladwa@gmx.de&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b=
> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:<=
/span></b> Saturday, June 22, 2013 12:43 PM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weig=
ht: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of=
 {le} vs. {lo}<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><br>
la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e<br>&gt; "selbri tag"?&nbsp; not CLL,<br><br>The co=
ncept (though maybe not the term) is CLL. Most occurences of tenses for exa=
mple use selbri tags: {mi pu klama} has a selbri tag which (implicitly) tag=
s {zo'e}. It means "Before zo'e, I go".<br><br>&gt; but, that aside, what d=
oes it means: "they are<br>&gt; cute (to me) (in some respect) like (someth=
ing or other)"&nbsp; "sorta cute?"<br><br>"Dogs are _so_ cute."<br><br>{tai=
} compares, like English "so". In this case, what it compares the bridi to =
is left up to context.<br><br>&gt; Problem was that I couldn't easily get f=
rom "young beautiful" to "cute":<br>&gt; "young" fits, "beautiful" not so m=
uch.&nbsp; But then, I was never a fan of<br>&gt; compositional definitions=
 anyhow, so I'll stick with what I said.<br><br>It's not easy to find a bet=
ter lujvo. Compositionality only gets one so far.<br><br>&gt; But the expla=
nation according to which Dog is what {lo gerku} really<br>&gt;
 means is much more complicated (not to mention based on more implausible<b=
r>&gt; assumptions) than the perfectly straightforward one, even in its<br>=
&gt; mathematical form.<br><br>Could be, but different people think in diff=
erent ways. What seems complicated to one person might seem more intuitive =
to another, and vice versa.<br><br>mu'o mi'e la selpa'i<br><br>-- You recei=
ved this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" g=
roup.<br>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, =
send an email to lojban+<a ymailto=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" =
href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</=
a>.<br>To post to this group, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@goo=
glegroups.com" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroups.=
com</a>.<br>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.<br>F=
or more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out"
 target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br><br><br=
><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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