Received: from mail-yh0-f64.google.com ([209.85.213.64]:37856) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UqhQk-0002L0-U2 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2013 03:22:10 -0700 Received: by mail-yh0-f64.google.com with SMTP id b20sf3312655yha.19 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2013 03:21:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=TYDsZSJgtdpyPQl/w2V1poqeE/uZRdyL6xKQo+gEP+E=; b=hzkjP940Gy9vtO5fyME5aV7kvyuY/9oyZKYWeSpfq2ewg1RWmfzML64yS46BgLkKG8 ZybzhKel1IH4CwrpwWny7yeUkNXyZ7LYhmKKYPpuaC0HemF0H8Z2HO7bWzb0jY9Uhg3y vY9PGJCZmMMCvHv0CEyKl2wzFnQj0f32YU6jdQ2vIYIrpn0Z+YT2S4VaX+zzDj2m1mSe /Y1vfj+BKf+1/xLm+6EBH8kg6TCuAS/KqPFwf4KuUsij9sHI0C/cxgeQVEeBQXg+Qyjz vNx7LEQbb28AacCO1qsCFjymNLOzf78KsZZ2iNbiIcArFgYBC+QtaZ3f7ZBheWfyjPmJ Lkeg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=TYDsZSJgtdpyPQl/w2V1poqeE/uZRdyL6xKQo+gEP+E=; b=gDX8vbG/yzLi+bzg/WnbltGgyOfOHcmppFWzyba1C0pVCE5npLnE6Bgt5sL3yo99uM +pZmsDHo8osIigSr/F/fyce/U1Ffyz+Kacu+LvUCjM87qiBoa2r+Pm2Ce8wocWzWpmJa WMrQjexHrtY6XGNLKM42AUryPknisIwxowRkHyKa6uT08iQKsUreWGr0ewYW8r+Erd5l TqccnOdyCToxruuxzTf0kr1wy8wJqjgTky2yFd18tLkfDHBuDOKj1mAGlM5Bxj4VFga3 p9QWse+0Cl+ZnIPYJmjbuU8KcmGHBQGYnhtzbyvxxRxksghlPYlc70KYxpVNyyYID0Au rGfw== X-Received: by 10.49.30.105 with SMTP id r9mr440089qeh.4.1371982911890; Sun, 23 Jun 2013 03:21:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.39.201 with SMTP id r9ls1654679qek.72.gmail; Sun, 23 Jun 2013 03:21:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.35.109 with SMTP id g13mr435681qej.1.1371982910854; Sun, 23 Jun 2013 03:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 03:21:50 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?B?0JDQvdCw0YLQvtC70LjQuSDQk9Cw0YjQtdCy?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <5d7f238f-ff93-40ab-af24-fc6320d91b23@googlegroups.com> <199f9de9-f0bb-4cbb-bd8e-e124b45d5d1d@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo} MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: volishavas@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2122_936377.1371982910535" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_2122_936377.1371982910535 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I may call a woman with {lo nanmu} if I think the person is a man. You can ask about that almost anybody, especially la tsani or la selpa'i.= =20 And they can say am I right or not. =D7=CF=D3=CB=D2=C5=D3=C5=CE=D8=C5, 23 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 12:28:53 UTC+= 6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 aionys =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC: > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 11:48 PM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5= =D7 > > wrote: > >> In my opinion, it's a {prexorlo}-way of thinking. Read these to clarify:= =20 >> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/**BPFK+Section%3A+gadrior=20 >> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo . >> > > I think you should be the one reading them, because no, it isn't. > =20 > >> =D3=D5=C2=C2=CF=D4=C1, 22 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 6:22:48 UTC+6 =D0=CF= =CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 aionys =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC: >> >>> {lo} can have a specific reference, but doesn't need to. Whatever is=20 >>> referenced with {lo} must be something that satisfies the x1 of the=20 >>> internal selbri. >>> {le} must always have a specific reference. Whatever is referenced with= =20 >>> {le} can satisfy the x1 of the internal selbri, but doesn't have to. >>> >>> You can't call a dog that looks very bear-like {lo cribe}, but you can= =20 >>> call it {le cribe}. >>> >>> The difference is that {lo} means it /actually is/ whatever you're=20 >>> calling it. {lo karce} is actually a car, {lo cribe} actually is a bear= ,=20 >>> while {le} merely means that you are describing a specific thing as tha= t,=20 >>> whether or not it actually is. >>> >>> If you don't know if someone is a man or a woman, you can call that=20 >>> person {le ninmu} even if it turns out that's a man, but you can't call= =20 >>> that person {lo ninmu}. (For anyone who's seen old SNL, Pat is a great= =20 >>> example of this.) >>> >>> >>> --=20 >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n=20 >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> =20 >> =20 >> > > > > --=20 > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_2122_936377.1371982910535 Content-Type: text/html; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I may call a woman with {lo nanmu} if I think the person is a man.
You c= an ask about that almost anybody, especially la tsani or la selpa'i. And th= ey can say am I right or not.

=D7=CF=D3=CB=D2=C5=D3=C5=CE=D8=C5, 23 = =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 12:28:53 UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5= =CC=D8 aionys =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 11:48 PM, =E1=CE= =C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 <volis...@gma= il.com> wrote:
In my opinion, it's a {prexorlo}-way of thinking. Read these to clarify: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri or http:/= /www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo .

I think you should be the one reading them, because n= o, it isn't.
 
=D3=D5=C2=C2=CF= =D4=C1, 22 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 6:22:48 UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7= =C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 aionys =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:
{lo= } can have a specific reference, but doesn't need to. Whatever is=20 referenced with {lo} must be something that satisfies the x1 of the=20 internal selbri.
{le} must always have a specific reference.=20 Whatever is referenced with {le} can satisfy the x1 of the internal=20 selbri, but doesn't have to.

You can't call a dog that looks very be= ar-like {lo cribe}, but you can call it {le cribe}.

The difference i= s that {lo} means it /actually is/ whatever you're calling it. {lo karce} i= s actually a car, {lo cribe} actually is a bear, while {le} merely means th= at you are describing a specific thing as that, whether or not it actually = is.

If you don't know if someone is a man or a woman, you can call that per= son {le ninmu} even if it turns out that's a man, but you can't call that p= erson {lo ninmu}. (For anyone who's seen old SNL, Pat is a great example of= this.)


--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo = pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
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--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
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