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Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}
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From: "John E. Clifford" <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
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Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 08:33:30 -0500
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 Content preview:  Well, my worry is about the construction, not just the particular
    case, since it does not seem to be resolvable in a logical way: "resembles
    something", "to some extent", "on some scale" -- maybe there are senses of
    "so" that these work for, but none of them seem to be what is intended here.
    {ju} actually seems closer to the point. While a heap of puppies are often
    cuter than a single one, I doubt that the mass of dogs is cute at all, even
    if cuteness is a frequent characteristic of dogs. [...] 
 
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Well, my worry is about the construction, not just the particular case, sin=
ce it does not seem to be resolvable in a logical way: "resembles something=
", "to some extent", "on some scale" -- maybe there are senses of "so" that=
 these work for, but none of them seem to be what is intended here.  {ju} a=
ctually seems closer to the point.
While a heap of puppies are often cuter than a single one, I doubt that the=
 mass of dogs is cute at all, even if cuteness is a frequent characteristic=
 of dogs.

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 22, 2013, at 21:30, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote=
:

> I was never real fond of "tai broda" for "so [X]"  I understand it when p=
eople use it that way, but I don't use it.  "mutce" seems to be much more s=
alient.  I think la'u works, though, too.  (What about ci'u?)  Or perhaps "=
so" is really more of a noise word in these cases, so "iu" (or whatever) is=
 more appropriate?
>=20
>=20
>   As for "dogs are so cute", I would prefer "loi" in that  construction (=
or possibly even lo'e or le'e).  Man, doesn't anyone use anything but "lo" =
anymore??
>=20
>   So: "loi gerku cu .iu citmle"
>=20
>             --gejyspa
>=20
>                                --
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:13 PM, John E. Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> =
wrote:
> Thanks, {la'u} "of some amount" does work better.  Still uncomfortable ab=
out the construction, adding a place but not filling it, I would have thoug=
ht adverbial tanru were more apprpriate.
>=20
> Sent from my iPad
>=20
> On Jun 22, 2013, at 19:45, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:
>=20
> > On Saturday, June 22, 2013 10:05:51 John E Clifford wrote:
> >> Not sure what {tai} does here, no NP after it. (I pass over {ci'omle},
> >> you're entitle to make your compounds mean whatever you want them to.)
> >
> > I think the correct preposition is "la'u", not "tai". "tai" is what I u=
sed in
> > ".i ca'o le nu casnu tai kei", for "pendant qu'ainsi l'on d=E9lib=E8re"=
.
> >
> > On Saturday, June 22, 2013 13:18:01 Jonathan Jones wrote:
> >> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 7:06 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>> {blabi} *is* a verb, as is every Lojban predicate.
> >>
> >> Selbri are *not* verbs.
> >
> > Cross-linguistically, verbs are words that take arguments (sumti). Ther=
e is
> > not, as far as I know, any natlang which has an indefinitely long seque=
nce of
> > numbered places, but all natlangs, as far as I know, and Lojban have wo=
rds
> > which take arguments, some of which can be tagged by an adposition. So =
a
> > brivla is a verb.
> >
> > Pierre
> > --
> > Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou=
ps "lojban" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send =
an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >
> >
>=20
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
 "lojban" group.
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 email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
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> =20
> =20

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<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>Well, my worry is about t=
he construction, not just the particular case, since it does not seem to be=
 resolvable in a logical way: "resembles something", "to some extent", "on =
some scale" -- maybe there are senses of "so" that these work for, but none=
 of them seem to be what is intended here. &nbsp;{ju} actually seems closer=
 to the point.</div><div>While a heap of puppies are often cuter than a sin=
gle one, I doubt that the mass of dogs is cute at all, even if cuteness is =
a frequent characteristic of dogs.</div><div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><di=
v><br>On Jun 22, 2013, at 21:30, Michael Turniansky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:m=
turniansky@gmail.com">mturniansky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><di=
v></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">I was never real fo=
nd of "tai broda" for "so [X]" &nbsp;I understand it when people use it tha=
t way, but I don't use it. &nbsp;"mutce" seems to be much more salient. &nb=
sp;I think la'u works, though, too. &nbsp;(What about ci'u?) &nbsp;Or perha=
ps "so" is really more of a noise word in these cases, so "iu" (or whatever=
) is more appropriate?<div>
<br></div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">&nbsp; As for "dogs are=
 so cute", I would prefer "loi" in that &nbsp;construction (or possibly eve=
n lo'e or le'e). &nbsp;Man, doesn't anyone use anything but "lo" anymore??<=
/div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">&nbsp; So: =
"loi gerku cu .iu citmle"<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
--gejyspa</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp;--<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:13 PM, John E. Clifford <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">kali9putra@yahoo.com=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Thanks, {la'u} "of some amount" does work better. &nbsp;Still uncomfortable=
 about the construction, adding a place but not filling it, I would have th=
ought adverbial tanru were more apprpriate.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Jun 22, 2013, at 19:45, Pierre Abbat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phma@bezitopo=
.org">phma@bezitopo.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; On Saturday, June 22, 2013 10:05:51 John E Clifford wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Not sure what {tai} does here, no NP after it. (I pass over {ci'om=
le},<br>
&gt;&gt; you're entitle to make your compounds mean whatever you want them =
to.)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I think the correct preposition is "la'u", not "tai". "tai" is what I =
used in<br>
&gt; ".i ca'o le nu casnu tai kei", for "pendant qu'ainsi l'on d=E9lib=E8re=
".<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Saturday, June 22, 2013 13:18:01 Jonathan Jones wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 7:06 AM, selpa'i &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sel=
adwa@gmx.de">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; {blabi} *is* a verb, as is every Lojban predicate.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Selbri are *not* verbs.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Cross-linguistically, verbs are words that take arguments (sumti). The=
re is<br>
&gt; not, as far as I know, any natlang which has an indefinitely long sequ=
ence of<br>
&gt; numbered places, but all natlangs, as far as I know, and Lojban have w=
ords<br>
&gt; which take arguments, some of which can be tagged by an adposition. So=
 a<br>
&gt; brivla is a verb.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Pierre<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar.<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro=
ups "lojban" group.<br>
&gt; To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send=
 an email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojba=
n+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
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oups.com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
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target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br>
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t_out" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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</div></blockquote></body></html>

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