Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 01:57:30 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo}
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Here is new definition:
*lo* (LE) Generic article. It converts a selbri, selecting its first=20
argument, into a sumti. The resulting expression refers generically to any=
=20
or some individual or individuals that fit as the first argument of the=20
selbri. An inner quantifier can be used to indicate the number of=20
individuals. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributively=20
over such individuals.(Source:=20
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri)


Where did you find the word "veridical"?

=D0=CF=CE=C5=C4=C5=CC=D8=CE=C9=CB, 24 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 3:02:39 UTC+6=
 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 aionys =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:
>
> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 6:41 AM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7=
 <volis...@gmail.com<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> Using here {le nanmu} is not better and actually it might be wrong. Cuz=
=20
>> it may be that I just now saw a woman, which I described as a man and I=
=20
>> think the person is a man.
>> He/she has not any specific meaning for me at all that is why I called=
=20
>> him/her {lo nanmu}, but not {le ninmu}.
>> Please, everybody, read xorlo-update already cuz the {lo}-meaning has=20
>> changed dramatically since CLL, which is dated by 1997.
>>
>
> Lookup the meaning of the word "veridical". {lo} is and /always has been/=
=20
> veridical- it must and can only be used for things which /actually are/=
=20
> what you're describing them as. {le} is and /always has been/ non-veridic=
al.
>
> xorlo did not change the meaning of {lo} or {le}, it just changed how=20
> quantification works.
> =20
>
>> =D7=CF=D3=CB=D2=C5=D3=C5=CE=D8=C5, 23 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 18:18:40 U=
TC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 v4hn =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:
>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 03:21:50AM -0700, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=
=C1=DB=C5=D7 wrote:=20
>>> > I may call a woman with {lo nanmu} if I think the person is a man.=20
>>> > You can ask about that almost anybody, especially la tsani or la=20
>>> selpa'i.=20
>>> > And they can say am I right or not.=20
>>>
>>> Yes, you can do that. Obviously. How else would you describe someone=20
>>> who seems to be a man?=20
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, you say something ba'e wrong then.=20
>>> Using {le nanmu} (which in my opinion is better style anyway when you=
=20
>>> have someone specific in mind) you do not, because you refer to=20
>>> a specific individual no matter the description.=20
>>>
>>>
>>> v4hn=20
>>>
>>  --=20
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s=20
>> "lojban" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a=
n=20
>> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>> =20
>> =20
>>
>
>
>
> --=20
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>

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Here is new definition:<br><dl><dt><strong>lo</strong> (LE)</dt><dd> Generi=
c article. It converts a
 selbri, selecting its first argument, into a sumti. The resulting=20
expression refers generically to any or some individual or individuals=20
that fit as the first argument of the selbri. An inner quantifier can be
 used to indicate the number of individuals. An outer quantifier can be=20
used to quantify distributively over such individuals.</dd><dt>(Source: htt=
p://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri)</dt></dl><p><br></p><p>Where=
 did you find the word "veridical"?</p><br>=D0=CF=CE=C5=C4=C5=CC=D8=CE=C9=
=CB, 24 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013&nbsp;=C7., 3:02:39 UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=
=D4=C5=CC=D8 aionys =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 6:41 AM, =E1=
=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"java=
script:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"GF19o7K5fvcJ">volis...@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Using here {le nanmu} is not better and actually it might be wrong. Cuz it =
may be that I just now saw a woman, which I described as a man and I think =
the person is a man.<br>He/she has not any specific meaning for me at all t=
hat is why I called him/her {lo nanmu}, but not {le ninmu}.<br>
Please, everybody, read xorlo-update already cuz the {lo}-meaning has chang=
ed dramatically since CLL, which is dated by 1997.<br></blockquote><div><br=
>Lookup the meaning of the word "veridical". {lo} is and /always has been/ =
veridical- it must and can only be used for things which /actually are/ wha=
t you're describing them as. {le} is and /always has been/ non-veridical.<b=
r>
<br>xorlo did not change the meaning of {lo} or {le}, it just changed how q=
uantification works.<br>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=D7=CF=
=D3=CB=D2=C5=D3=C5=CE=D8=C5, 23 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013&nbsp;=C7., 18:18:40 UTC+6=
 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 v4hn =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:<div>
<div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 03:21:=
50AM -0700, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 wrote:
<br>&gt; I may call a woman with {lo nanmu} if I think the person is a man.
<br>&gt; You can ask about that almost anybody, especially la tsani or la s=
elpa'i.=20
<br>&gt; And they can say am I right or not.
<br>
<br>Yes, you can do that. Obviously. How else would you describe someone
<br>who seems to be a man?
<br>
<br>Nevertheless, you say something ba'e wrong then.
<br>Using {le nanmu} (which in my opinion is better style anyway when you
<br>have someone specific in mind) you do not, because you refer to
<br>a specific individual no matter the description.
<br>
<br>
<br>v4hn
<br></blockquote>

<p></p></div></div><div><div>

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&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu'o mi'e .=
aionys.<br><br>.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu=
 do zo'o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>

</blockquote>

<p></p>

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