Received: from mail-we0-f185.google.com ([74.125.82.185]:36620) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Ur4sk-0002h5-3g for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 04:24:41 -0700 Received: by mail-we0-f185.google.com with SMTP id t56sf2070764wes.2 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 04:24:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=HWSfqkcwzAecK/a0TQzv8DAvn2L857zFqktvkONWDBs=; b=oS2JIC9buDX0dkf6BEwR+E7BEWZyyO4WAyorLXHR95HTZw4c5ReauvAAd5s4fqfc6E +lK/N+pE3wnSFAr4L1fQPLZznJj8FTqp0V/xXJYmbvi0A84K+tFRCNkogFOci2PVjzvt qDG+krZrwSOctxrVv+v7DoqYLmAuQM46+mzJYdG7+RBLNPYXwxliZ1WmunBt3/oG1P6O 1wUykHfhnbV6kGnd8/n6bLGqS/i80VHIoCJKDe/+6RbRoI6aNdFYBM/XCBpeRxtUprsE akUyo+Vhprj/ojecs7eMjDmZkxNL5d+y8HVhZqRXfiM151oLsCnc02HFDsrnx+dVevOZ WUWA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=HWSfqkcwzAecK/a0TQzv8DAvn2L857zFqktvkONWDBs=; b=fy00to3RpMyp4O3n8AFdKPps8YW5V2AaXXZSyTSs+FQQgLe5a18KpAzcwvndl8tCnz nqZavE2giG9lcK7u7f6p/qCrJW2xgwrghJ3SxADBHQ2BUdW3clSzoGxIrvilUg6nw26L 6bSBCG1RYTH3ORV59LiVGMsywQ8YCLIpBHnD5w8Nomovz1UclySlDWyZDlgSXwXPRhrn TxRs17/ZuGuA4uLhuH8Z571ukrAbnTe8WpjKA5utvSJVHzjiFgHWV+xvUWLDos7ivzSv axZAKSzs/XkY1qzNkMGAdBo5ENfnGavNM7wCGLns4vEbUzEmtGaCc2JEbiAdW3g5cQFi rd4g== X-Received: by 10.180.198.202 with SMTP id je10mr270738wic.2.1372073058118; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 04:24:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.87.65 with SMTP id v1ls832799wiz.35.gmail; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 04:24:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.204.186.7 with SMTP id cq7mr1943695bkb.3.1372073056901; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 04:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22f.google.com (mail-la0-x22f.google.com [2a00:1450:4010:c03::22f]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id nl4si327859bkb.2.2013.06.24.04.24.16 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Jun 2013 04:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c03::22f; Received: by mail-la0-f47.google.com with SMTP id fe20so10161331lab.34 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 04:24:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.5.97 with SMTP id r1mr12506322lbr.76.1372073056403; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 04:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.29.10 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 04:24:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0e7c3d42-ca19-4edc-b121-8d9084ecd7fc@googlegroups.com> References: <5d7f238f-ff93-40ab-af24-fc6320d91b23@googlegroups.com> <199f9de9-f0bb-4cbb-bd8e-e124b45d5d1d@googlegroups.com> <20130623121840.GI32044@samsa.fritz.box> <2d346b25-b744-4f11-9fcb-65211de46c48@googlegroups.com> <14446569-dc85-4745-bf09-3c21f0e50c36@googlegroups.com> <629d0888-06e6-4668-839a-7b045c618eba@googlegroups.com> <0e7c3d42-ca19-4edc-b121-8d9084ecd7fc@googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 05:24:16 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Please, the best explanation of {le} vs. {lo} From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae94ee03322091804dfe4a783 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --14dae94ee03322091804dfe4a783 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 4:21 AM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 <= volishavas@gmail.com>wrote: > Quote: "which has now been accepted by a vote of 11 to 0 by the BPFK, > although it is technically subject to future changes until we declare > ourselves done". > And if you're right about xorlo then why does {lo}-entry contains old > version (veridical one)? > Because xorlo doesn't change the fact that lo is the veridical article and le is the non-veridical one. > And if you think that "veridical" is the right and from xorlo-update, the= n > where "veridical" word in in-xorlo {lo} definition? > Nowhere, because xorlo only describes the /changes/ it makes. > And why then {lo}-entry says underneath "Under the xorlo reform, loconverts a selbri to a sumti in a rather = generic way. In particular, lo > broda =3D zo'e noi broda.". > Simply to repeat??? > Because pre-xorlo {lo} had default quantifiers. {lo broda} /used/ to mean "at least one of all existing things which actually are broda", now it means "something(s) which actually are broda" > > On Monday, June 24, 2013 3:44:06 PM UTC+6, aionys wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:41 AM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5= =D7 wrote: >> >>> Only CLL is official, all the rest are just propositions. Quote from >>> here: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/**How+to+use+xorlo >>> ""xorlo" is our (the baupla fuzykamni's) >>> pet name for the gadri (articles, like "the" and "a" in English) BPFK >>> proposal written mostly by xorxes ." >>> or from here: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/**BPFK+Section%3A+gadri >>> Title says: "Proposed definitions". >>> >>> If you can read... >>> >> >> From the /exact/ /same/ /page/: >> "The gadri proposal (w= hich has now been accepted by a vote of 11 to 0 by the BPFK" >> >> xorlo was unanimously made official by the BPFK way back in 2004. >> >> >> And stop being a dick. >> >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, June 24, 2013 3:32:58 PM UTC+6, aionys wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:28 AM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5= =D7 wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dictionary entry about {lo} shows CLL version (which has official, bu= t >>>>> old meaning) of {lo}. And noted how under xorlo reform {lo} is unders= tood >>>>> now: lo broda =3D zo'e n= oi >>>>> broda. That's new. >>>>> Also new definition see here: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/**BPF**** >>>>> K+Section%3A+gadri >>>>> Dictionaries prefer to stick rather to official version (in CLL), but >>>>> offer a hand to whomever wants to know more of new changes made in Lo= jban. >>>>> No one forces you to abandon the official way of understanding >>>>> {gadri}-meaning. >>>>> But if you want to know more of post-CLL changes to Lojban... >>>>> >>>> >>>> The "xorlo version" /IS/ the official version. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, June 24, 2013 3:05:42 PM UTC+6, aionys wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 2:57 AM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB= =C5=D7 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is new definition: >>>>>>> *lo* (LE) Generic article. It converts a selbri, selecting its >>>>>>> first argument, into a sumti. The resulting expression refers gener= ically >>>>>>> to any or some individual or individuals that fit as the first argu= ment of >>>>>>> the selbri. An inner quantifier can be used to indicate the number = of >>>>>>> individuals. An outer quantifier can be used to quantify distributi= vely >>>>>>> over such individuals.(Source: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/**BPF**** >>>>>>> K+Section%3A+gadri >>>>>>> ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Where did you find the word "veridical"? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://vlasisku.lojban.org/**vla****sisku/lo >>>>>> lo LE ...KU >>>>>> cmavo >>>>>> >>>>>> veridical descriptor: the one(s) that really is(are) ... >>>>>> >>>>>> Under the xorlo reform, lo c= onverts a selbri to a sumti in a rather generic way. In particular, lo >>>>>> broda =3D zo'e noi brod= a. >>>>>> >>>>>> - CLL 6.2 >>>>>> - jbovlaste >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> =D0=CF=CE=C5=C4=C5=CC=D8=CE=C9=CB, 24 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 3:02:= 39 UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 aionys >>>>>>> =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 6:41 AM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1= =DB=C5=D7 >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Using here {le nanmu} is not better and actually it might be >>>>>>>>> wrong. Cuz it may be that I just now saw a woman, which I describ= ed as a >>>>>>>>> man and I think the person is a man. >>>>>>>>> He/she has not any specific meaning for me at all that is why I >>>>>>>>> called him/her {lo nanmu}, but not {le ninmu}. >>>>>>>>> Please, everybody, read xorlo-update already cuz the {lo}-meaning >>>>>>>>> has changed dramatically since CLL, which is dated by 1997. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lookup the meaning of the word "veridical". {lo} is and /always ha= s >>>>>>>> been/ veridical- it must and can only be used for things which /ac= tually >>>>>>>> are/ what you're describing them as. {le} is and /always has been/ >>>>>>>> non-veridical. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> xorlo did not change the meaning of {lo} or {le}, it just changed >>>>>>>> how quantification works. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> =D7=CF=D3=CB=D2=C5=D3=C5=CE=D8=C5, 23 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 18:= 18:40 UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 v4hn >>>>>>>>> =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 03:21:50AM -0700, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9= =CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > I may call a woman with {lo nanmu} if I think the person is a >>>>>>>>>> man. >>>>>>>>>> > You can ask about that almost anybody, especially la tsani or >>>>>>>>>> la selpa'i. >>>>>>>>>> > And they can say am I right or not. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, you can do that. Obviously. How else would you describe >>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>> who seems to be a man? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nevertheless, you say something ba'e wrong then. >>>>>>>>>> Using {le nanmu} (which in my opinion is better style anyway whe= n >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> have someone specific in mind) you do not, because you refer to >>>>>>>>>> a specific individual no matter the description. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> v4hn >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e >>>>>>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to lojban+un...@**googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group******/lojban= >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**grou****** >>>>>>>>> ps/opt_out . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o >>>>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to lojban+un...@**googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group****/lojban >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**grou**** >>>>>>> ps/opt_out . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>> >>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sen= d >>>>> an email to lojban+un...@**googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group**/lojban >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**grou**ps/opt_out<= https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+un...@**googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group/lojban >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out >>> . >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --14dae94ee03322091804dfe4a783 Content-Type: text/html; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 4:21 AM, =E1=CE= =C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 <volishavas@gmail.com>= wrote:
Quote: "which has now been accepted by a vote of 11 to 0 by the BPFK, = although=20 it is technically subject to future changes until we declare ourselves=20 done".
And if you're right about xorlo then why does {lo}-entry= contains old version (veridical one)?

Because xor= lo doesn't change the fact that lo is the veridical article and le is t= he non-veridical one.
 
And if you think that "veri= dical" is the right and from xorlo-update, then where "veridical&= quot; word in in-xorlo {lo} definition?

Nowhere, because xorlo only describes the /changes/ i= t makes.
 
And why then {lo}-en= try says underneath "Under the xorlo reform, lo converts a selbri to a s= umti in a rather generic way. In particular, lo broda =3D zo'e noi br= oda.". Simply to repeat???

Because pre-xorlo {lo} had default quantifiers. {lo b= roda} /used/ to mean "at least one of all existing things which actual= ly are broda", now it means "something(s) which actually are brod= a"
 

On Monday, June 24, 2013 3:4= 4:06 PM UTC+6, aionys wrote:


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:41 AM, =E1=CE= =C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 <volis...@gmail.= com> wrote:
Only CLL is official, all the rest are just propositions. Quote from here: = h= ttp://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo
""xorlo&= quot; is our (the baupla fuzykamni's) pet= name for the gadri (articles, like "the" and "a" in En= glish) BPFK proposal written mostly by xorxes."
or from here: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri
Title says: "Proposed definitions".

If you can read.= ..

From the /exact/ /same/ /page/:
"The gadri proposal (which has now been accepted by a vote of 1= 1 to 0 by the BPFK"

xorlo was unanimously made official by the BPFK way back in 2004.

And stop being a dick.
 
=

On Monday, June 24, 2013 3:32:58 PM UTC+6, aionys wrote:


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 3:28 AM, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 <= span dir=3D"ltr"><volis...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dictionary entry about {lo} shows CLL version (which has official, but old = meaning) of {lo}. And noted how under xorlo reform {lo} is understood now: = lo broda =3D zo'e noi broda. That's new.
Also new definition see here: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPF<= /u>K+Section%3A+gadri
Dictionaries prefer to stick rather to = official version (in CLL), but offer a hand to whomever wants to know more = of new changes made in Lojban.
No one forces you to abandon the official way of understanding {gadri}-mean= ing.
But if you want to know more of post-CLL changes to Lojban...

The "xorlo version" /IS/ the official version= .


On Monday, June 24, 2013 3:05:= 42 PM UTC+6, aionys wrote:


On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 2:57 AM, =E1=CE= =C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 <volis...@gmail.= com> wrote:
Here is new definition:
lo (LE)
Generic article.= It converts a selbri, selecting its first argument, into a sumti. The resulting=20 expression refers generically to any or some individual or individuals=20 that fit as the first argument of the selbri. An inner quantifier can be used to indicate the number of individuals. An outer quantifier can be=20 used to quantify distributively over such individuals.
(Source: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri)=


Where did you find the word "veridical"?

=
ht= tp://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/lo

lo LE …KU cmavo

veridical descriptor: the one(s) that really is(are) ...

Under the xorlo reform, lo converts a selbri to a sumti in a rather = generic way. In particular, lo broda =3D zo'e noi broda.

 
<= br>=D0=CF=CE=C5=C4=C5=CC=D8=CE=C9=CB, 24 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 3:02:= 39 UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 aionys =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:=
On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 6:41 AM, =E1=CE=C1= =D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 <volis...@gmail.com= > wrote:
Using here {le nanmu} is not better and actually it might be wrong. Cuz it = may be that I just now saw a woman, which I described as a man and I think = the person is a man.
He/she has not any specific meaning for me at all t= hat is why I called him/her {lo nanmu}, but not {le ninmu}.
Please, everybody, read xorlo-update already cuz the {lo}-meaning has chang= ed dramatically since CLL, which is dated by 1997.
Lookup the meaning of the word "veridical". {lo} is and /always = has been/ veridical- it must and can only be used for things which /actuall= y are/ what you're describing them as. {le} is and /always has been/ no= n-veridical.

xorlo did not change the meaning of {lo} or {le}, it just changed how q= uantification works.
 
=D7=CF=D3=CB=D2=C5=D3=C5=CE=D8=C5, 23 =C9=C0=CE=D1 2013 =C7., 18:18:40= UTC+6 =D0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8 v4hn =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1=CC:
On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 03:21:= 50AM -0700, =E1=CE=C1=D4=CF=CC=C9=CA =E7=C1=DB=C5=D7 wrote:
> I may call a woman with {lo nanmu} if I think the person is a man.
> You can ask about that almost anybody, especially la tsani or la s= elpa'i.=20
> And they can say am I right or not.

Yes, you can do that. Obviously. How else would you describe someone
who seems to be a man?

Nevertheless, you say something ba'e wrong then.
Using {le nanmu} (which in my opinion is better style anyway when you
have someone specific in mind) you do not, because you refer to
a specific individual no matter the description.


v4hn

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--
= mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa = bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am yo= ur father. :D )

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= .
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/o= pt_out.
 
 



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out<= /a>.
 
 



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.  
 



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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