Received: from mail-gh0-f192.google.com ([209.85.160.192]:64805) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UsAe5-0001P2-Rt for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2013 04:46:01 -0700 Received: by mail-gh0-f192.google.com with SMTP id r19sf224214ghr.9 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2013 04:45:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=qs/EzB1SDILa+TYC7GIK1eLHKBSUcGq7hoB4VgKYvhs=; b=tAnoTeb5JR2I4eERQQ4sI7SrRDq96ybcnDQPGJhzP/UJnVUoruf51plPZ2Aj1HAO9i HjxmvCusmOvVFgK8sT9tosJGwFLnThjYRy4CafyIOP1T5OJBQ8RJTgJGJutv1wUcbeZ2 seiQT5WngeP6rIJbaQI17tOybQPvcYPoubGzXgRRc4BkmEI6npzAMd8ylFfaNQ+8lDM8 PJsJa/bJtmG2nxzW9NqMiBfoDbSX1bkC2/V/d9iumSzhbkDw4ZB8ukIjhT5X6KXDkxHP rMNutZSFYw4iuE+7D/sXQmTSutBLfvvA/C0sQuaDmS80uazR/s9s1t23Rmi6c4lIk6zw 05wA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=qs/EzB1SDILa+TYC7GIK1eLHKBSUcGq7hoB4VgKYvhs=; b=KgnK6NUCcyLvEW4jpIqm54Qyw1L0M0kXUPYO8XxGAnpqLKmK2sStqse1yvuQCyCe2R j65qIbyEab4CpcW+JHdNXJTlhRbBVm3z55Nrd5amTRgsMDCIz4CDNaVHuIxOjNUTjMxQ f4uJ3VJtKLAcradUiNVf0o79zjxqfm4yiosQBGlDTrr9lfYDgv/378amFdbfQmv4rR/N qj0LMSDIA95Y9sBI9o6hSCdofDxOn9VW24RktQ1MY7hfvn/raab8rf0980KdfmEWOBjO t8KIN0TxVTe6+LmMGbt3wepQVKv9JwiHRcnt7nNFLSsGj4KA+lGAn06z036jD7RvpiHy KAug== X-Received: by 10.50.27.74 with SMTP id r10mr35924igg.10.1372333543467; Thu, 27 Jun 2013 04:45:43 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.41.68 with SMTP id d4ls1145504igl.43.gmail; Thu, 27 Jun 2013 04:45:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.124.74 with SMTP id mg10mr13043312igb.4.1372333542996; Thu, 27 Jun 2013 04:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x22b.google.com (mail-ob0-x22b.google.com [2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e3si128971igy.0.2013.06.27.04.45.42 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Jun 2013 04:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22b as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22b; Received: by mail-ob0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id dn14so614577obc.16 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2013 04:45:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.120.102 with SMTP id lb6mr3915991obb.13.1372333542843; Thu, 27 Jun 2013 04:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.4.165 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2013 04:45:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51CC2104.9030209@gmx.de> References: <8561d566-8f8b-4b46-9e7b-5fdbc1367b33@googlegroups.com> <51BDBA1D.80602@gmx.de> <51BE419F.4090806@gmx.de> <1371434761.19218.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <51BEBACC.7090706@gmx.de> <1371471976.58028.YahooMailNeo@web184402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <51CC134D.6080805@gmx.de> <51CC2104.9030209@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 07:45:42 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] "we" and masses. A bug in the CLL? From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013a077255ae8104e0214db5 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e013a077255ae8104e0214db5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think the problem you and I are having is the meaning of the word "specific". We are not talking here of "steci", but more like the following definitions of specific from m-w.com: 1a : constituting or falling into a specifiable category b : sharing or being those properties of something that allow it to be referred to a particular category 4 of, relating to, or constituting a species and especially a biological species i.e. klesi or jutsi When I say "mi me la'oi turniansky" It means "I am of the category/species Turniansky" If I say "mi me lao'i Turniansky lo ka jbena" it means "I am Turnainsky by birth" --gejyspa On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 7:24 AM, selpa'i wrote: > la gejyspa cu cusku di'e > >> Of course it can mean both. The CLL version of "me [ko'a]" is >> equivalent to the ma'oste "me [ko'a] ro da". >> > > "among" is not the same as "specific to in everything". > > > So we just say that "me >> broda zo'e" is usually understood to mean just that. >> > > I don't know why one would want to keep the ma'oste meaning. It can be > expressed using other words (cf. ckini, moi, steci), but xorlo-{me} is a > core part of the language. > > > mu'o mi'e la selpa'i > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com > . > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group/lojban > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e013a077255ae8104e0214db5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 I think the problem you and I are having is the meanin= g of the word "specific". =A0We are not talking here of "ste= ci", but more like the following definitions of specific from m-w.com:
1a : constituting or falling into a specifiable category
b : sharing or= being those properties of something that allow it to be referred to a part= icular category
4=A0of, relating to, or constituting a species and espec= ially a biological species

=A0i.e. klesi or jutsi

=
=A0 When I say "mi me la'oi turniansky" =A0It mean= s "I am of the category/species Turniansky" =A0If I say "mi = me lao'i Turniansky lo ka jbena" it means "I am Turnainsky by= birth"

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa


On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 7:24 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> = wrote:
la gejyspa cu cusku di'e
Of course it can mean both. The CLL version of "me [ko'a]" is=
equivalent to the ma'oste "me [ko'a] ro da".

"among" is not the same as "specific to in everything".=


So we just say that "me
broda zo'e" is usually understood to mean just that.

I don't know why one would want to keep the ma'oste meaning. It can= be expressed using other words (cf. ckini, moi, steci), but xorlo-{me} is = a core part of the language.


mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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--
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