Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 10:18:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Baby words: "more".
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On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:09:38 PM UTC+4, Latro wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> rlpo...@digitalkingdom.org <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> That is a *great* workaround, thank you.
>>
>> I'd still like a reasonable way to say "more", though.  za'u is
>> *greater than 1* by default, so, no, I disagree that it means that
>> as the language is currently specified.
>>
>
As xorxes suggested 1.5 years ago you can use {ve zmadu: "x1 is an=20
additional amount on top of x2 in property x3 totalling x4"}
=20

>
>> -Robin
>
> A fair few of us have suggested defining it to be {za'u xo'e} where the=
=20
> convention is that {xo'e}=3D{pa} if context is insufficient to resolve a=
=20
> different referent. At any rate {za'u xo'e} is there if you want to be=20
> explicit.
>

I don't believe one can easily determine if the current context has xo'e=3D=
1;=20
or xo'e=3D0; Who decides? What is the defining criterion? If you are unsure=
=20
za'u quickly becomes a synonym of su'o and we lose plural marker.


Also sorry for copy-pasting the following but i really have nothing to add=
=20
to it:


On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 07:19:41PM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EF=BF=BDas wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Robin Lee Powell
> <rlpo...@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> >
> > I have, For Some Time Now (tm) wanted a "more than the current
> > value" and "less than the current value" PA (or, more usefully,
> > a "current value" PA). =EF=BF=BDThis is just another reason.

>=20
> Suppose "va'ai" is the current value. How would that work?
>=20
> If I say "xu do djica pi va'ai ladru", does that mean "would you
> like the current amount of milk?" Would that be the amount she
> already had, and I'm asking whether she would like a second amount
> like it? Or is it asking whether she is satisfied with what she
> has had?
I would say the latter.

> Would "za'u va'ai" mean an amount larger than the current one,
> such that she would end up having the current amount plus this
> second, larger amount on top of it, or would "za'u va'ai" be just
> any additional amount on top of the current one (but how would
> that fit with the normal meaning of "za'u"?)
Hmmm...  Damn you and your logic.  :P

You're right, you can't really do that with quantifiers, because
you're quantifying the amount of stuff, not whether that amount of
stuff is new or not.

-Robin

=20

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<br><br>On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:09:38 PM UTC+4, Latro wrote:<blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 10=
:40 PM, Robin Lee Powell <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" targ=
et=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"W0yRYsWo74EJ">rlpo...@digitalkingdom=
.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">That is a *great*=
 workaround, thank you.<br>
<br>
I'd still like a reasonable way to say "more", though. &nbsp;za'u is<br>
*greater than 1* by default, so, no, I disagree that it means that<br>
as the language is currently specified.<br></blockquote></div></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div>As xorxes suggested 1.5 years ago you can u=
se {ve zmadu: "x1 is an additional amount on top of x2 in property x3 total=
ling x4"}</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex">
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
-Robin</font></span></blockquote><div>A fair few of us have suggested defin=
ing it to be {za'u xo'e} where the convention is that {xo'e}=3D{pa} if cont=
ext is insufficient to resolve a different referent. At any rate {za'u xo'e=
} is there if you want to be explicit.</div></div></div></div></blockquote>=
<div><br></div><div>I don't believe one can easily determine if the current=
 context has xo'e=3D1; or xo'e=3D0; Who decides? What is the defining crite=
rion? If you are unsure za'u quickly becomes a synonym of su'o and we lose =
plural marker.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Also sorry for copy-=
pasting the following but i really have nothing to add to it:<br><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div><br></div>=
<div><div>On Thu, Dec 01, 2011 at 07:19:41PM -0300, Jorge Llamb=EF=BF=BDas =
wrote:</div></div><div><div>&gt; On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Robin Lee =
Powell</div></div><div><div>&gt; &lt;rlpo...@digitalkingdom.org&gt; wrote:<=
/div></div><div><div>&gt; &gt;</div></div><div><div>&gt; &gt; I have, For S=
ome Time Now (tm) wanted a "more than the current</div></div><div><div>&gt;=
 &gt; value" and "less than the current value" PA (or, more usefully,</div>=
</div><div><div>&gt; &gt; a "current value" PA). =EF=BF=BDThis is just anot=
her reason.</div></div><div><div><br></div></div><div><div>&gt;&nbsp;</div>=
</div><div><div>&gt; Suppose "va'ai" is the current value. How would that w=
ork?</div></div><div><div>&gt;&nbsp;</div></div><div><div>&gt; If I say "xu=
 do djica pi va'ai ladru", does that mean "would you</div></div><div><div>&=
gt; like the current amount of milk?" Would that be the amount she</div></d=
iv><div><div>&gt; already had, and I'm asking whether she would like a seco=
nd amount</div></div><div><div>&gt; like it? Or is it asking whether she is=
 satisfied with what she</div></div><div><div>&gt; has had?</div></div><div=
><div>I would say the latter.</div></div><div><div><br></div></div><div><di=
v>&gt; Would "za'u va'ai" mean an amount larger than the current one,</div>=
</div><div><div>&gt; such that she would end up having the current amount p=
lus this</div></div><div><div>&gt; second, larger amount on top of it, or w=
ould "za'u va'ai" be just</div></div><div><div>&gt; any additional amount o=
n top of the current one (but how would</div></div><div><div>&gt; that fit =
with the normal meaning of "za'u"?)</div></div><div><div>Hmmm... &nbsp;Damn=
 you and your logic. &nbsp;:P</div></div><div><div><br></div></div><div><di=
v>You're right, you can't really do that with quantifiers, because</div></d=
iv><div><div>you're quantifying the amount of stuff, not whether that amoun=
t of</div></div><div><div>stuff is new or not.</div></div><div><div><br></d=
iv></div><div><div>-Robin</div></div></blockquote></div><div>&nbsp;</div>

<p></p>

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