Received: from mail-oa0-f58.google.com ([209.85.219.58]:39517) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UwuCv-0005n5-Fz for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:13:30 -0700 Received: by mail-oa0-f58.google.com with SMTP id j1sf2049972oag.23 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:13:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=/rr1CfwwkJNoOhCQ1hFab9G3NS66vrQ0DQ8ZJNTW+ew=; b=y4r+3aQJYZZ2EfGc+FN/hWzcpQDOhtr5SWpqcWlqXNsHim7bGuxnMOHK0eFg/jI9Sj G20YfkNNfsbsyF4H/FTYKZJ2DTM2fXVGZNXobGKFtvjmcQTT4c2EA2E3VQa54tId+SpI 4wcu4Ty5QWd5KTMMflhhQl6exs3O3/qw9vImh796t6NetgdCwPLtigRA0LUqxbSBEp5k EWP3yzwpl1fAR2oQOMSMagZ4EOArgVGsDbUC/EgBKMvjRX8SAiZOOd6EeplWJLLxGe4c 3D4zH/cB/JdcINKpDRRyZlUPftWjeG03Q0sAyFw9GjFPLJRRDP/XHFkzv4Q/AThFPV6L U67A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=/rr1CfwwkJNoOhCQ1hFab9G3NS66vrQ0DQ8ZJNTW+ew=; b=lbGliPdmVSEdm6WeXOPjJDW85iPUMs1IAm2AC6jzBeZuEmrP42ZiwVxNxGcM2qEGS9 N/h4WrJLl9+xxja6htoXgv5xnRYhyOZkQhYkMBwb9glEiS7s8rztI/1Mwm1o695qG24X mS2Qxq0DkodVr092eyxK3mQywX67ZeL+VbMKGCvoc40YInCsqW7EVJFATrIHeEUYuOv/ zdz7mFvmHrkAowWzAAO5W4+Pg6H6Xfy+7aQopKVLhAzLCkkre9kOWADuexCB7vh1XEP5 9Y5J3Y5qTB2QGt+bTAe3c0jiFgFB12zIuZZXA3xvHZGLaQQD1rYzHJSmpznaoPZtPmEw mz+g== X-Received: by 10.50.66.134 with SMTP id f6mr1640618igt.13.1373461995384; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:13:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.138.229 with SMTP id qt5ls6378168igb.26.canary; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:13:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.106.78 with SMTP id gs14mr43206849igb.7.1373461994848; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x22c.google.com (mail-oa0-x22c.google.com [2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22c]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ed8si5509957igb.2.2013.07.10.06.13.14 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22c as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22c; Received: by mail-oa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id l10so9607900oag.31 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:13:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.87.73 with SMTP id v9mr27741836obz.90.1373461994510; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.4.165 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:13:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20130708172215.GA4227@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 09:13:14 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Baby words: "more". From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22c as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013cb6e44bb4a704e1280aed X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e013cb6e44bb4a704e1280aed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I disagree strongly, Jean. All natural languages have strong grammatical constructions, some of them quite bizarre, and we learn them (at least as children) by modelling and feedback. Now, might lojban be impossible to learn this way? Maybe, but there's really no a priori way of telling. At the very least, it doesn't suffer from the cognitive load of having to remember irregularities in verb or noun construction as natlangs do. It's easy for an adult to pick up the grammar of lojban in just a few weeks. --gejyspa On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Jean Meyrand wrote: > Robin, I am admirative of the way you try to inculcate your baby lojbanic > notions. > > Nevertheless, I wonder it may be senseless to teach lojban in such a way, > because it is basically the way we learn natlangs. I sincerely doubt > anybody can guess the way Lojban works on the sole basis of trials&errors, > rather it seems to me that such an artifical logical language can only be > taught in a prescriptive kind of professoral way. At least, by reading > manuals, and having a priori strong notions of grammar and formal logic... > > Regards, Escape > > > 2013/7/8 Robin Lee Powell > >> >> As in "Do you want more food?", or, for the baby to say "more food". >> >> {jmina} is the closest I've seen, but it's a pain in the ass for >> that sort of purpose; the places are wrong. >> >> -Robin >> >> -- >> http://intelligence.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. >> .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e >> lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e >> lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni >> li'u >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e013cb6e44bb4a704e1280aed Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 I disagree strongly, Jean.

= =A0All natural languages have strong grammatical constructions, some of the= m quite bizarre, and we learn them (at least as children) by modelling and = feedback. =A0Now, might lojban be impossible to learn this way? =A0Maybe, b= ut there's really no a priori way of telling. =A0At the very least, it = doesn't suffer from the cognitive load of having to remember irregulari= ties in verb or noun construction as natlangs do. =A0It's easy for an a= dult to pick up the grammar of lojban in just a few weeks.=A0

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa



On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Jean Meyrand <escaaape@gmail.com> wrote:
Robin, I am admirative of t= he way you try to inculcate your baby lojbanic notions.

= Nevertheless, I wonder it may be senseless to teach lojban in such a way, b= ecause it is basically the way we learn natlangs. =A0 I sincerely doubt any= body can guess the way Lojban works on the sole basis of trials&errors,= rather it seems to me that such an artifical logical language can only be = taught in a prescriptive kind of professoral way. =A0 At least, by reading = manuals, and having a priori strong notions of grammar and formal logic...<= /div>

Regards, Escape


2= 013/7/8 Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>

As in "Do you want more food?", or, for the baby to say "mor= e food".

{jmina} is the closest I've seen, but it's a pain in the ass for that sort of purpose; the places are wrong.

-Robin

--
http://intelligence.= org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
.i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u = .e
lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e = lu go'i na'i li'u .e
lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mam= ta be do cu sofybakni li'u

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.



--
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=A0
=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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