Received: from mail-ve0-f186.google.com ([209.85.128.186]:58288) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UwuGE-0005px-L4 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:16:55 -0700 Received: by mail-ve0-f186.google.com with SMTP id jw11sf2127967veb.13 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:16:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=+1aw0WlUd1WzhplEDIa9TUpWwRvgth2zkyR5gLVNSYk=; b=yWPIKFZD75I146X1iIgbvM0ahAzh8++EovSX9IYhGnfM0Mdq/vHcz1DZh5SfuAH67Q lwS+2bO2qEQnYAUDNrSOK7f/WGKh6BUmUF5lgR4ZtwJOXFHo+oIT8f8bhEnxmS8igpa+ oomMEnUAE/FkFuBYrz1kF8Y++VuanT0ZfLgv+pjN7sRZxJtl5+Nd5WbQ8jzkXrL/KCsY lZnmfxNBwPw4Dqxh+kzMaM3X35gamcb1nmCp9uNFvovMYnL70Xn82HyzN4xo74esd5Rb 2wPBPF4jlQclwRXEFeNe5vF1D78KrUu20muVfTr0p2KbpoA/R8SqhMA+mae4aXGm+ZcW 8djA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=+1aw0WlUd1WzhplEDIa9TUpWwRvgth2zkyR5gLVNSYk=; b=K1EPKBO8DEeR5MYcTPzP7xGd6hrJiiQHJSRTLlXfPPH4ywTEp+cPzsieLUvQZb3uLY u82wOjA0e7yMuzXkoWlG3uWLQbQp7RY1kmMfdv5brfuYP8XNL4VJLZBl9W1qKkuSjW+w 7TTH0PNkRw4Ro7i9s9gYsOr/ySTrK8EyAZjOKdWO3sR6Ml0X6sbov5hXm3+6MzoXjCWz jLlJ5iYgdO1KIseN6o2MgAS6zo2q9w7d5Vws/IaRThEdbtnoZrnoG7tKs0Jz7Vsdpgax f0eeM/P4lEOAQSee/+nRQAD3wpWBwmM81Z2f3I3+Ht6FdGdQSA/9VQdGo3xo4jJLgczI BRbQ== X-Received: by 10.50.67.113 with SMTP id m17mr2229691igt.10.1373462199760; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:16:39 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.3.103 with SMTP id b7ls3788134igb.27.gmail; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:16:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.12.104 with SMTP id x8mr25816061igb.1.1373462199353; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x229.google.com (mail-oa0-x229.google.com [2607:f8b0:4003:c02::229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f1si3282057igq.2.2013.07.10.06.16.39 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c02::229 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c02::229; Received: by mail-oa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id n10so9646301oag.0 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:16:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.133.14 with SMTP id oy14mr27889043oeb.84.1373462198978; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.4.165 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:16:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <636f8283-17f1-4bb8-9bb5-6b88ba1d9c7d@googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 09:16:38 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Making a jbo locale file and package for installation, need some suggestions. From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c02::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4727467b8f3204e1281631 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7b4727467b8f3204e1281631 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Actually, there are natlangs that do use numbers. For example, Hebrew's days of the week translate to first day, second day, third day, fourth day, fifth day, sixth day, Sabbath. This system has been in use for thousands of years and still is. (And of course is in direct conflict to the the nominal lojbanic system). And it steps on the toes of anyone who equates the seventh day with Saturday (i.e. those form the jegvo religions). --gejyspa On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Feilen Haksan wrote: > I... May have missed something. Numbers are very culturally biased, > because of course no one uses numbers. Colors on the other hand aren't > because you made it (or it's used in China?) > > I still think neutrality is important, but gleki brought up a good point > on IRC : There's no way to be neutral when we're using someone else's > calendar already. > On Jul 10, 2013 9:06 AM, "Michael Turniansky" > wrote: > >> Well, before any of the IRC people weigh, I vote color days. I HATE >> the number day system as being very culturally biased. Of course, I also >> created the color day system, so I am me-biased... >> >> --gejyspa >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 12:49 PM, la arxokuna wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 5:52:54 PM UTC+4, la arxokuna wrote: >>>> >>>> I can agree with Pierre that color system of jefydei (jeftu djedi) >>>> might be better. >>>> It'll give a flavor of liveliness to otherwise mathematically precise >>>> logical language. >>>> This color system can be part of a totally independent Lojbani culture. >>>> >>>> I can't agree with animal naming of months ({mlajukma'i} for July) as >>>> zodiac is not a stable thing throughout history due to precession effects. >>>> And it's not culturally neutral (some nations divided the route of the sun >>>> into more than 12 elements). >>>> >>>> However, as Georgian calendar is official (like metric system) it'd be >>>> wise to use Georgian names. >>>> >>> >>> o'anai clearly I meant to say GREGORIAN. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Why should we name January the first month when New Year is in February >>>> in China? >>>> Why September is {sozymasti} when as it's etymology suggests it's in >>>> fact the seventh month? >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/t7ypnWTR2S0/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --047d7b4727467b8f3204e1281631 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 Actually, there are natlangs that do use numbers. =A0F= or example, Hebrew's days of the week translate to first day, second da= y, third day, fourth day, fifth day, sixth day, Sabbath. =A0This system has= been in use for thousands of years and still is. =A0(And of course is in d= irect conflict to the the nominal lojbanic system). =A0And it steps on the = toes of anyone who equates the seventh day with Saturday (i.e. those form t= he jegvo religions).

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa



On Wed= , Jul 10, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Feilen Haksan <feilen1000@gmail.com><= /span> wrote:

I... May have missed somethin= g. Numbers are very culturally biased, because of course no one uses number= s. Colors on the other hand aren't because you made it (or it's use= d in China?)

I still think neutrality is important, but gleki brought up = a good point on IRC : There's no way to be neutral when we're using= someone else's calendar already.

On Jul 10, 2013 9:06 AM, = "Michael Turniansky" <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 Well, before any of the IRC people weigh, I vote color= days. =A0 I HATE the number day system as being very culturally biased. = =A0Of course, I also created the color day system, so I am me-biased...
=A0 =A0--gejyspa

=

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 12:49 PM, la arxo= kuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 5:52:5= 4 PM UTC+4, la arxokuna wrote:
I can agree with Pierre that color system of jefydei (jeftu djedi) might be= better.
It'll give a flavor of liveliness to otherwise mathematica= lly precise logical language.
This color system can be part of a = totally independent Lojbani culture.

I can't agree with animal naming of months ({mlajuk= ma'i} for July) as zodiac is not a stable thing throughout history due = to precession effects. And it's not culturally neutral (some nations di= vided the route of the sun into more than 12 elements).

However, as Georgian calendar is official (like metric = system) it'd be wise to use Georgian names.

=
o'anai clearly I meant to say GREGORIAN.
=A0

<= div>Why should we name January the first month when New Year is in February= in China?
Why September is {sozymasti} when as it's etymology suggests it= 9;s in fact the seventh month?

--
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=A0
=A0

--
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=A0
=A0

--
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=A0
=A0

--
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