Received: from mail-pb0-f56.google.com ([209.85.160.56]:53820) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UwuHW-0005rP-1g for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:18:10 -0700 Received: by mail-pb0-f56.google.com with SMTP id rp16sf2061799pbb.11 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:18:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=PwK+HXeI3ju4QUFGzveWkEdyVqkV/fU9cS21H27OhOY=; b=xNXThF7NwaadBmQ9E26nU/EKbam6eU9m7LdOWI03ru5yuI7qECp5kolBDn26fEIA3T TtqwSkjDtk3g4oSQIZo1W6gV5xVophfbCdVjNvYWESRcsXnS58E5SIXzOpvOMvu4jVkT 7eMTryCPmDkI4+/UYK+Sdq98KOSVHYPBEMx/RlPtmj9rwQEttYbOctLsLdTuteNluWfo 1WkIr3GCMLUpB01C/9Pt521fUPTU1oRnYioM8Ciz3LaZxBdj1aM4yv+9Xdt9Ku4vW4tj cC0wXHqK/H4JEok9iGuTXXu5D4FEwRpvCsSgXF59kagys/YvyA52v8hsbb6Fi/tGt2mF dlAg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=PwK+HXeI3ju4QUFGzveWkEdyVqkV/fU9cS21H27OhOY=; b=Fr3rhIYjYaa8Cc/vK943OxKgREBB0NFh8hJk2wndwffx0Stpfipc1eURuETGYThkF9 BNpL2RpGDQ1HhWFyCeU1pKtnMhzYVBlYCqKWLWPEldpx+pI3SHpCF1IUyG7w1wSYQrnf fVDTMnQFSD6a7VVp2cxkq7nkfqY6P5zUSMBuh4NPyv6EB4oFY1mW6kLbZ+Ze4qJ3sTgV g3V9a1o5nYxyePkkMrNui1+5B4bOzVvgR5pVSfWGipQnBFVYH0HBkhDMhQkuMN224fTt PWJPcvU0hbLhMHYxvJ9aDX3d0E0eOrEyP4Z6B+xvh8u9WckFemBktn2H57zANbzC4vz9 M+5g== X-Received: by 10.50.57.112 with SMTP id h16mr1639647igq.5.1373462280294; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:18:00 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.134.234 with SMTP id pn10ls6412035igb.2.canary; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:17:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.43.129.73 with SMTP id hh9mr21660890icc.30.1373462279900; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x234.google.com (mail-oa0-x234.google.com [2607:f8b0:4003:c02::234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f1si3282372igq.2.2013.07.10.06.17.59 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c02::234 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c02::234; Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id g12so9413890oah.39 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:17:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.102.41 with SMTP id fl9mr28042342oeb.37.1373462279575; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.4.165 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 06:17:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <636f8283-17f1-4bb8-9bb5-6b88ba1d9c7d@googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 09:17:59 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Making a jbo locale file and package for installation, need some suggestions. From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c02::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111dd444961f204e1281b58 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e0111dd444961f204e1281b58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 (Arabic has the same system as Hebrew, btw) On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > Actually, there are natlangs that do use numbers. For example, Hebrew's > days of the week translate to first day, second day, third day, fourth day, > fifth day, sixth day, Sabbath. This system has been in use for thousands > of years and still is. (And of course is in direct conflict to the the > nominal lojbanic system). And it steps on the toes of anyone who equates > the seventh day with Saturday (i.e. those form the jegvo religions). > > --gejyspa > > > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Feilen Haksan wrote: > >> I... May have missed something. Numbers are very culturally biased, >> because of course no one uses numbers. Colors on the other hand aren't >> because you made it (or it's used in China?) >> >> I still think neutrality is important, but gleki brought up a good point >> on IRC : There's no way to be neutral when we're using someone else's >> calendar already. >> On Jul 10, 2013 9:06 AM, "Michael Turniansky" >> wrote: >> >>> Well, before any of the IRC people weigh, I vote color days. I HATE >>> the number day system as being very culturally biased. Of course, I also >>> created the color day system, so I am me-biased... >>> >>> --gejyspa >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 12:49 PM, la arxokuna >> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 5:52:54 PM UTC+4, la arxokuna wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I can agree with Pierre that color system of jefydei (jeftu djedi) >>>>> might be better. >>>>> It'll give a flavor of liveliness to otherwise mathematically precise >>>>> logical language. >>>>> This color system can be part of a totally independent Lojbani culture. >>>>> >>>>> I can't agree with animal naming of months ({mlajukma'i} for July) as >>>>> zodiac is not a stable thing throughout history due to precession effects. >>>>> And it's not culturally neutral (some nations divided the route of the sun >>>>> into more than 12 elements). >>>>> >>>>> However, as Georgian calendar is official (like metric system) it'd be >>>>> wise to use Georgian names. >>>>> >>>> >>>> o'anai clearly I meant to say GREGORIAN. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Why should we name January the first month when New Year is in >>>>> February in China? >>>>> Why September is {sozymasti} when as it's etymology suggests it's in >>>>> fact the seventh month? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/t7ypnWTR2S0/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e0111dd444961f204e1281b58 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(Arabic has the same system as Hebrew, btw)


On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 a= t 9:16 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wr= ote:
=A0 Actually, there are nat= langs that do use numbers. =A0For example, Hebrew's days of the week tr= anslate to first day, second day, third day, fourth day, fifth day, sixth d= ay, Sabbath. =A0This system has been in use for thousands of years and stil= l is. =A0(And of course is in direct conflict to the the nominal lojbanic s= ystem). =A0And it steps on the toes of anyone who equates the seventh day w= ith Saturday (i.e. those form the jegvo religions).

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa



On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Feilen Haksan <f= eilen1000@gmail.com> wrote:

I... May have missed somethin= g. Numbers are very culturally biased, because of course no one uses number= s. Colors on the other hand aren't because you made it (or it's use= d in China?)

I still think neutrality is important, but gleki brought up = a good point on IRC : There's no way to be neutral when we're using= someone else's calendar already.

On Jul 10, 2013 9:06 AM, "Michael= Turniansky" <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 Well, before any of the IRC people weigh, I vote color= days. =A0 I HATE the number day system as being very culturally biased. = =A0Of course, I also created the color day system, so I am me-biased...
=A0 =A0--gejyspa

=

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 12:49 PM, la arxo= kuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tuesday, July 9, 2013 5:52:5= 4 PM UTC+4, la arxokuna wrote:
I can agree with Pierre that color system of jefydei (jeftu djedi) might be= better.
It'll give a flavor of liveliness to otherwise mathematica= lly precise logical language.
This color system can be part of a = totally independent Lojbani culture.

I can't agree with animal naming of months ({mlajuk= ma'i} for July) as zodiac is not a stable thing throughout history due = to precession effects. And it's not culturally neutral (some nations di= vided the route of the sun into more than 12 elements).

However, as Georgian calendar is official (like metric = system) it'd be wise to use Georgian names.

=
o'anai clearly I meant to say GREGORIAN.
=A0

<= div>Why should we name January the first month when New Year is in February= in China?
Why September is {sozymasti} when as it's etymology suggests it= 9;s in fact the seventh month?

--
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=A0
=A0

--
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=A0
=A0

--
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=A0
=A0


--
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