Received: from mail-vc0-f192.google.com ([209.85.220.192]:39087) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UwvCc-00076B-Of for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:17:12 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f192.google.com with SMTP id hr11sf2137270vcb.19 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:16:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gGT61lxLU+QYghTolh5VVD+M+tC0z3dxOQk/q1kHVzQ=; b=FDIVEThRmvAHfFScKWV+3LA1BXxIebDr2tfZ5mTKfZbFO1RizTiTxIl2rYyhb16yCu suhPV2hoWUEYnuvjGSBiS3ik2cDofzqqasl4J3LXWMnBJh8vbeHd0/WFhB1dmpoRzzyq aL1qaWVkEp3yzH8iAxgf7kc3VjflhVBfC4Ph3dCxPOeWU1/W5+2tkPq4TXy9O8mCD0pd jppz1CXBUI/Yh3Kp1m1EJnOHKQznbxfgf/xqFvhE+DGrOi0zAsQ5YtHVdYbMWNJ7YkaL lhowtadNR9KY7AxNUFKcY6H398d6GVjaL9jff+ahMAuSNvEFKdO7QFAm63NSQfldn5/c lFqg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gGT61lxLU+QYghTolh5VVD+M+tC0z3dxOQk/q1kHVzQ=; b=t74CnTomj7xFJfHKfSOZbGEWk2Vx3OvIPtUEv8WJ9g9XswbCPHNJuRRiEDIximhpcE 3Rq3qddodqe+ZYtH54BWqYlh4RO6v2Gk5X8oivzVobg8YVge7k5ZjYn8w7xDecoSTb2k s+Eb4znzK58AauG0YPMf9O9w5a9Os2YvPq1jQqfl1SSXc2El/KFFco/2OcpYjVSReGS8 +MjBzzl9X322kMR5nCXZOHMjtHCJueUdTfVEK3EZx/3OrK8HuQNxcLJ7NT+MgObenMhN NSaw1lRiC5oSbGEldswsktJjCsWHtEpQCCaRZAafDjz5Ahrn4mlkrrvCPdN1W4JmAWLB FpIA== X-Received: by 10.182.75.136 with SMTP id c8mr41332obw.9.1373465819353; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:16:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.120.9 with SMTP id ky9ls5198168igb.5.canary; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:16:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.42.148.198 with SMTP id s6mr22986759icv.28.1373465818990; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x22d.google.com (mail-ob0-x22d.google.com [2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r4si3307915ign.3.2013.07.10.07.16.58 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d; Received: by mail-ob0-f173.google.com with SMTP id wc20so8378629obb.4 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:16:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.87.73 with SMTP id v9mr27961923obz.90.1373465818622; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.4.165 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:16:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <636f8283-17f1-4bb8-9bb5-6b88ba1d9c7d@googlegroups.com> <4ee3f3c5-f4fc-4420-8adb-6d706e854e4a@googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 10:16:58 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Making a jbo locale file and package for installation, need some suggestions. From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013cb6e43af7b904e128ee4b X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e013cb6e43af7b904e128ee4b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Don't confuse "arbitrariness" with "cultural non-neutrality". It's arbitrary that we don't chop off our pinkie toes on the left foot, and yet, I don't know of any culture that does so, so "keeping pinkie toes intact" is culturally neutral. --gejyspa On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Feilen Haksan wrote: > Most also use a decimal number system, it doesn't make it any less > arbitrary. I do think that colors would reduce confusion and be > significantly more intuitive, however a more official tally of active > jbopre would probably be smart. > > As for months, have we still settled on gregorian? It's, at the very > least, widespread, but we don't have a zero index. (This may not be a > problem however, as I don't think locale specifications take that into > account) > On Jul 10, 2013 9:53 AM, "Michael Turniansky" > wrote: > >> >> On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:27 AM, la arxokuna wrote: >> >>> Colors on the other hand aren't because you made it (or it's used in >>>> China?) >>>> >>>> I still think neutrality is important, but gleki brought up a good >>>> point on IRC : There's no way to be neutral when we're using someone else's >>>> calendar already. >>>> >>> >>> ti'e even bacteria have 7-day cycles. so it might be neutral. Of course >>> we might ask {ma jalge?}. Is it humanity that forces bacteria to follow >>> this worldwide artificial cycle. Or is it nature that forces people to use >>> it's 7-day cycle? >>> >> >> As I brought up back in Octobor 2010, out of 7 billion people in the >> world, of those that use a week system, approximately only 25 million >> people (the Igbo) use a other-than-7-day system. So, while it might irk >> them, the 7 day system is pretty much widespread on this planet. >> >> --gejyspa >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/t7ypnWTR2S0/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --089e013cb6e43af7b904e128ee4b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 Don't confuse "arbitrariness" with "= ;cultural non-neutrality". =A0It's arbitrary that we don't cho= p off our pinkie toes on the left foot, and yet, I don't know of any cu= lture that does so, so "keeping pinkie toes intact" is culturally= neutral.

=A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">

On Wed, Jul 10= , 2013 at 10:06 AM, Feilen Haksan <feilen1000@gmail.com> = wrote:

Most also use a decimal numbe= r system, it doesn't make it any less arbitrary. I do think that colors= would reduce confusion and be significantly more intuitive, however a more= official tally of active jbopre would probably be smart.

As for months, have we still settled on gregorian? It's,= at the very least, widespread, but we don't have a zero index. (This m= ay not be a problem however, as I don't think locale specifications tak= e that into account)

On Jul 10, 2013 9:53 AM, = "Michael Turniansky" <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

= On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:27 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@g= mail.com> wrote:

Colors on the other hand aren't because you made it (or = it's used in China?)

I still think neutrality is important, but gleki brought up = a good point on IRC : There's no way to be neutral when we're using= someone else's calendar already.


ti'e even bacteria have 7-day cycles. so it might be neutral. Of c= ourse we might ask {ma jalge?}. Is it humanity that forces bacteria to foll= ow this worldwide artificial cycle. Or is it nature that forces people to u= se it's 7-day cycle?

=A0 As I brought up back in Octobor 2010, out of 7 b= illion people in the world, of those that use a week system, approximately = only 25 million people (the Igbo) use a other-than-7-day system. =A0So, whi= le it might irk them, the 7 day system is pretty much widespread on this pl= anet.

=A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 --gejyspa

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=A0
=A0

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=A0
=A0

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