Received: from mail-ob0-f188.google.com ([209.85.214.188]:58842) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UwvSj-0007Mw-L0 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:33:50 -0700 Received: by mail-ob0-f188.google.com with SMTP id ta17sf2102917obb.25 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:33:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=SZJgVHcoe0kkZqC2ssXdovISO9PwNbda8VJYVhXhBx0=; b=qlyF4q8dqEL5FeLSSlq9sF3pvbyVFFeVLzr9HUxnuNLP5ZK2Z11Qvfg5Uli4LpxU4c HxuR9/VfkdYKuCyObHi0LIWDyuJQGsKuQQvYv91w5WN98v0S2JoDuGuxbk+AJvmefk07 O9FP4/O7DGm39LgzARpiIqsc/87sL9WDBEXX8lB7ATiUn8naiA8Khms+RZnfxFRStZ7Y HNVYS2rKoxjsFuiJWdKZVTvTj/Eqy1IOG0v3TGsX/yIfR8PCBrDzBQrHf2uwwWCexypl SsjZ0ypqq5g5Mmp4tTQm2onmDc+/CNUqHHc2EO7gwGZH1NQSlM8fqSwZ64J0O0CsO6gf cH8g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=SZJgVHcoe0kkZqC2ssXdovISO9PwNbda8VJYVhXhBx0=; b=TVWK6d8+9fwigiHKX0mzR+NKTPlI/M383fRx4yAj667hOyIsriJSiZwW9hm7kVFW/p AuBHogfg/wl3epc8B/+ncdjPl6CV4/UQUv48nGtCWNu+NcHNpz+iEKygWWQfXZu2pIbU pnk99Sz53nB3UZI2ukq/9U8qSs1Kavl0/b28C/7X7N+dDZY1NF9e1vjLVcf0dqbe2Xqq iyDRpmJhjpgoOmca7AluD5wxX9iGWlElo1D6xWzd10TznM56YQFyrVlDNhcgr0oXNUDB pWURyO8XLGJL3MoF2vXFqYsM4g2h3KMgUosVr8uORE0kmBr5aJ12HsWZ4NkTVtQPYwEK Po4Q== X-Received: by 10.50.126.67 with SMTP id mw3mr2961020igb.15.1373466819404; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:33:39 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.16.84 with SMTP id e20ls6192748igd.14.canary; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:33:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.27.140 with SMTP id t12mr2711449pag.14.1373466819026; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x230.google.com (mail-pb0-x230.google.com [2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bu9si3979700pac.0.2013.07.10.07.33.39 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of feilen1000@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230; Received: by mail-pb0-f48.google.com with SMTP id ma3so6735247pbc.35 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:33:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.197.33 with SMTP id ir1mr31845163pbc.197.1373466818907; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.131.41 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.131.41 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:33:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1373466478.46553.YahooMailNeo@web184404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <636f8283-17f1-4bb8-9bb5-6b88ba1d9c7d@googlegroups.com> <4ee3f3c5-f4fc-4420-8adb-6d706e854e4a@googlegroups.com> <1373466478.46553.YahooMailNeo@web184404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 10:33:38 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Making a jbo locale file and package for installation, need some suggestions. From: Feilen Haksan To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: feilen1000@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of feilen1000@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=feilen1000@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c8f4da1e4504e129295e X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8ff1c8f4da1e4504e129295e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 We're not creating a new calendar here. We're creating a Locale to fit IBM locale specifications. 7 days, 12 months, date format. Actually, since most people will just use this to more easily set 'jbo' as an enabled language, LC_TIME will probably be rarely used. We just need sensible names and abbreviations. On Jul 10, 2013 10:28 AM, "John E Clifford" wrote: > IF you want to use the standard of international commerce (etc.), then you > are stuck with a seven-day week, beginning with Sunday and proceeding with > some variant of Moon, War God, Chief God, Storm God, Love Goddess and Old > Fart, and with a dozen months of quite inexplicable meanings in their > context (the numbered ones are two off in each case, for example) and > randomly varying lengths. Color names for the days of the week are as > cultural as anything else, since different cultures (and languages) divide > the spectrum differently, with no guarantee that here will be seven > sections. Finding names for the months is even trickier (unless you go to > numbers again) since associations with what happens in that month will vary > from place to place (one country's seed time is another's harvest,and so > on). There may be more rational approaches (13 months of 28 days each and > an occasional fiddle, say, which makes weeks have some meaning), just as > there are more reasonable number systems (for some purposes), but for > acceptance in the real world, this creaking structure seems the best to > use, while keeping an eye out for a successful reform. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Feilen Haksan > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:06 AM > *Subject:* Re: [lojban] Re: Making a jbo locale file and package for > installation, need some suggestions. > > Most also use a decimal number system, it doesn't make it any less > arbitrary. I do think that colors would reduce confusion and be > significantly more intuitive, however a more official tally of active > jbopre would probably be smart. > As for months, have we still settled on gregorian? It's, at the very > least, widespread, but we don't have a zero index. (This may not be a > problem however, as I don't think locale specifications take that into > account) > On Jul 10, 2013 9:53 AM, "Michael Turniansky" > wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:27 AM, la arxokuna wrote: > > Colors on the other hand aren't because you made it (or it's used in > China?) > I still think neutrality is important, but gleki brought up a good point > on IRC : There's no way to be neutral when we're using someone else's > calendar already. > > > ti'e even bacteria have 7-day cycles. so it might be neutral. Of course we > might ask {ma jalge?}. Is it humanity that forces bacteria to follow this > worldwide artificial cycle. Or is it nature that forces people to use it's > 7-day cycle? > > > As I brought up back in Octobor 2010, out of 7 billion people in the > world, of those that use a week system, approximately only 25 million > people (the Igbo) use a other-than-7-day system. So, while it might irk > them, the 7 day system is pretty much widespread on this planet. > > --gejyspa > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/t7ypnWTR2S0/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/t7ypnWTR2S0/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --e89a8ff1c8f4da1e4504e129295e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We're not creating a new calendar here. We're creati= ng a Locale to fit IBM locale specifications. 7 days, 12 months, date forma= t. Actually, since most people will just use this to more easily set 'j= bo' as an enabled language, LC_TIME will probably be rarely used. We ju= st need sensible names and abbreviations.

On Jul 10, 2013 10:28 AM, "John E Clifford&= quot; <kali9putra@yahoo.com&= gt; wrote:
IF you want to use the standard of international commerce (etc.), = then you are stuck with a seven-day week, beginning with Sunday and proceed= ing with some variant of Moon, War God, Chief God, Storm God, Love Goddess = and Old Fart, and with a dozen months of quite inexplicable meanings in the= ir context (the numbered ones are two off in each case, for example) and ra= ndomly varying lengths.=A0 Color names for the days of the week are as cult= ural as anything else, since different cultures (and languages) divide the = spectrum differently, with no guarantee that here will be seven sections.= =A0=A0 Finding names for the months is even trickier (unless you go to numb= ers again) since associations with what happens in that month will vary fro= m place to place (one country's seed time is another's harvest,and = so on).=A0 There may be more rational approaches (13 months of 28 days each and an occasional fidd= le, say, which makes weeks have some meaning), just as there are more reaso= nable number systems (for some purposes), but for acceptance in the real wo= rld, this creaking structure seems the best to use, while keeping an eye ou= t for a successful reform.


From: Feilen Haksan <feilen1000@gmail.com>
To:= lo= jban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2= 013 9:06 AM
Subject: Re:= [lojban] Re: Making a jbo locale file and package for installation, need some suggestions.

Most also use a decimal number system, it= doesn't make it any less arbitrary. I do think that colors would reduc= e confusion and be significantly more intuitive, however a more official ta= lly of active jbopre would probably be smart.
As for months, have we still settled on gregorian? It'= s, at the very least, widespread, but we don't have a zero index. (This= may not be a problem however, as I don't think locale specifications t= ake that into account)
On Jul 10, 2013 9:53 AM, "Michael Turniansky" <mturnians= ky@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:27 AM, la arxokuna= <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrot= e:
Colors on the other hand aren't because you made it (o= r it's used in China?)
I still think neutrality is important, but gleki brought u= p a good point on IRC : There's no way to be neutral when we're usi= ng someone else's calendar already.

ti'e even bacteria have 7-day cycles. so it might be neutral. Of c= ourse we might ask {ma jalge?}. Is it humanity that forces bacteria to foll= ow this worldwide artificial cycle. Or is it nature that forces people to u= se it's 7-day cycle?

=A0 As I brought up back in Octobor 2010, out of 7 b= illion people in the world, of those that use a week system, approximately = only 25 million people (the Igbo) use a other-than-7-day system. =A0So, whi= le it might irk them, the 7 day system is pretty much widespread on this pl= anet.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa

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=A0
=A0


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