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[216.109.114.56]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r1si162216qch.3.2013.07.10.07.38.48 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.109.114.56 as permitted sender) client-ip=216.109.114.56; Received: from [66.196.81.160] by nm4.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2013 14:38:48 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.146] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2013 14:38:48 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1022.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jul 2013 14:38:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 362582.22126.bm@omp1022.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 5071 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jul 2013 14:32:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: hKAFeeMVM1m66uVfFCwpEteZx0kZUQWmrWyE.n04JwW_W2p rD8Dov8sfBkGbP3kHGcw2Hs1KA.BUqzaIqFNAuYd13eCpmjr2WeFdWpe8tYV E9R.uc.Xs8BVUOYCLO3uGHbZDYdHB13wSaOR5aXYCOTWLLjPvzTnq8wLFWKc JLFi3VBltYNiOrvKJPeQK6YsPqI4IKiTZg9DaWq7wM2gT4Qb09m1brS9yd1s unz0Fd8PkyYt7k.kXC_M1uyaut3CFmCpmaAVnvsrkJLr0tJCFcKODlrt1rUf lXiPIfnDULo_8H38JYWJMx0p6VV.eXF7ERcg4sPZiQ_tvN97BtPPWx5bGRX0 6ZsxH7e.cjwPJoEGev6TMTwzqMSdgTWn2UNQnAE1itK4HNvxVj6_bsqjryCv gs8fFP0BPooBb0rVOY8.JkcvUTuvp4tR7dZNbmFT1x.PypmaYW7baHv9RM83 TuBlsLBu7JiiEcYrkElM_Lp0heg4zVb5YrMAtKYP9Y.hZMGCUK..skSzVeNb Dpr2l85f7FrIKyyAHYXrr7J_kNenSsMLQY2X_3HFUQLZVQJ3CRjj5vKzzX6c ZSBNi3JFUbTSgwT.akXlWJyGSWI1BqJ0xTaASRjQhiO6MuoE.PkIeh1h7hjc EhffXQjwx7nAa_fWdcy.Vq0eUoFv1K1IgxmnVTawN0KWC_DXAI4E8_3MeBBL 3xr4YW6GoHgKFQdTxeHZkCfZW67O8m.TQ4WB5qMT6zxbTNxjjzhcvRbWQNqv YOtxZtz1tODeM1iw7PKEJIgf9Q_qHw76XOfA1049m1muWGkcuwU0hgQDVzuc XVI0A.Kh1AH4IYfvEBcjv8pqpYEbybPSkR_VXDF0LJVpRwzL5pOBrd.BZ5Hs 9k1lGu1SroCDQJCDmiGCMEIqy16njAOd3zvxjr0ubTBxB Received: from [99.92.108.194] by web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:32:08 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,V2VsbCwgaW4gdGhlIDE5MjBzIGluIHRoZSBVUywgYSBsYXJnZSBudW1iZXIgb2YgeW91bmcgd29tZW4gZGlkIGluZGVlZCBvcHQgdG8gaGF2ZSB0aGVpciBwaW5raWUgdG9lcyBvbiBib3RoIGZlZXQgbG9wcGVkIG9mZi7CoCBUaGUgZ29hbCB3YXMgdG8gZml0IGludG8gdGhlIHN0eWxpc2ggbG9uZyBzbGltIGhpZ2gtaGVlbCBzaG9lcy7CoCBUaGlzIHByYWN0aWNlIGRpZXMgb3V0IGFzIHlvdW5nIGdpcmxzIHdlcmUgZm9yY2VkIGludG8gbmFycm93IHNob2VzIGZyb20gYW4gZWFybHkgYWdlIGFuZCBzbyBncmUBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.148.557 References: <636f8283-17f1-4bb8-9bb5-6b88ba1d9c7d@googlegroups.com> <4ee3f3c5-f4fc-4420-8adb-6d706e854e4a@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <1373466728.94344.YahooMailNeo@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:32:08 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Making a jbo locale file and package for installation, need some suggestions. To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.109.114.56 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1412092350-881888905-1373466728=:94344" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Well, in the 1920s in the US, a large number of young women did indeed opt to have their pinkie toes on both feet lopped off. The goal was to fit into the stylish long slim high-heel shoes. This practice dies out as young girls were forced into narrow shoes from an early age and so grew up not quite Chinese but seriously footbound for all that. [...] Content analysis details: (0.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (kali9putra[at]yahoo.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid ---1412092350-881888905-1373466728=:94344 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, in the 1920s in the US, a large number of young women did indeed opt = to have their pinkie toes on both feet lopped off.=A0 The goal was to fit i= nto the stylish long slim high-heel shoes.=A0 This practice dies out as you= ng girls were forced into narrow shoes from an early age and so grew up not= quite Chinese but seriously footbound for all that. ________________________________ From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Making a jbo locale file and package for installa= tion, need some suggestions. =20 =A0 Don't confuse "arbitrariness" with "cultural non-neutrality". =A0It's a= rbitrary that we don't chop off our pinkie toes on the left foot, and yet, = I don't know of any culture that does so, so "keeping pinkie toes intact" i= s culturally neutral. =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Feilen Haksan wrot= e: Most also use a decimal number system, it doesn't make it any less arbitrar= y. I do think that colors would reduce confusion and be significantly more = intuitive, however a more official tally of active jbopre would probably be= smart.=20 >As for months, have we still settled on gregorian? It's, at the very least= , widespread, but we don't have a zero index. (This may not be a problem ho= wever, as I don't think locale specifications take that into account)=20 >On Jul 10, 2013 9:53 AM, "Michael Turniansky" wrot= e: > > >> >>On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:27 AM, la arxokuna = wrote: >> >>Colors on the other hand aren't because you made it (or it's used in Chin= a?)=20 >>>>I still think neutrality is important, but gleki brought up a good poin= t on IRC : There's no way to be neutral when we're using someone else's cal= endar already. >>> >>> >>>ti'e even bacteria have 7-day cycles. so it might be neutral. Of course = we might ask {ma jalge?}. Is it humanity that forces bacteria to follow thi= s worldwide artificial cycle. Or is it nature that forces people to use it'= s 7-day cycle? >>=A0 As I brought up back in Octobor 2010, out of 7 billion people in the = world, of those that use a week system, approximately only 25 million peopl= e (the Igbo) use a other-than-7-day system. =A0So, while it might irk them,= the 7 day system is pretty much widespread on this planet. >> >> >>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa >> >> >>--=20 >>You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Go= ogle Groups "lojban" group. >>To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/l= ojban/t7ypnWTR2S0/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to lojban+= unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >>To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>=A0 >>=A0 >> > --=20 >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "lojban" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an = email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >=A0 >=A0 > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ---1412092350-881888905-1373466728=:94344 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, in the 1920s in= the US, a large number of young women did indeed opt to have their pinkie = toes on both feet lopped off.  The goal was to fit into the stylish lo= ng slim high-heel shoes.  This practice dies out as young girls were f= orced into narrow shoes from an early age and so grew up not quite Chinese = but seriously footbound for all that.

<= br>
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:1= 6 AM
Subject: Re: [loj= ban] Re: Making a jbo locale file and package for installation, need some s= uggestions.

  Don't confuse "arbitrariness" wi= th "cultural non-neutrality".  It's arbitrary that we don't chop off o= ur pinkie toes on the left foot, and yet, I don't know of any culture that = does so, so "keeping pinkie toes intact" is culturally neutral.

     --gejyspa



On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Feilen Hak= san <feilen100= 0@gmail.com> wrote:
Most also use= a decimal number system, it doesn't make it any less arbitrary. I do think= that colors would reduce confusion and be significantly more intuitive, ho= wever a more official tally of active jbopre would probably be smart.
As for months, have we still settled on gregorian? It's, a= t the very least, widespread, but we don't have a zero index. (This may not= be a problem however, as I don't think locale specifications take that int= o account)
On Jul 10, 2013 9:53 AM, "Michael Turniansky" <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:27 AM, la arxokuna <gleki= .is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
Colors on the other hand aren't because you made it (or it= 's used in China?)
I still think neutrality is important, but gleki brought u= p a good point on IRC : There's no way to be neutral when we're using someo= ne else's calendar already.

ti'e even bacteria have 7-day cycles. so it might be neutral. Of cours= e we might ask {ma jalge?}. Is it humanity that forces bacteria to follow t= his worldwide artificial cycle. Or is it nature that forces people to use i= t's 7-day cycle?

  As I brought up back in Octobor 2010, out of = 7 billion people in the world, of those that use a week system, approximate= ly only 25 million people (the Igbo) use a other-than-7-day system.  S= o, while it might irk them, the 7 day system is pretty much widespread on t= his planet.

          --gejyspa

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