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From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 01:32:31 -0400
Message-ID: <CAOQ8VDVKXmDVjUZ2c5wtHWfJ6GacMU-8WOOt3T_9wzz_oz7r1g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Baby words: "more".
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On 10 July 2013 08:08, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG <
lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:

> Jacob Errington wrote:
>
>> How about {zenba}?
>>
>> .i xu do djica lo nu zenba lo ka (ba'o) pinxe lo ladru xokaumei
>> Obviously, that's way to long to be productive, but {.i .aupei ladru
>> pinxe zenba} ?
>> "Do you want to increase in the property of <how much milk you have
>> drunk>."
>>
>
> I think the problem with the formulations proposed in this thread is that
> they are all ambiguous, with the obvious context-free meaning probably not
> the one that we want.
>
> zenba, zmadu, jmina all seem likely for expressing that one might like a
> larger portion dished out onto the plate that still has the original
> portion.
>
>
They could be used for that, but in the case of zenba which I propose, the
x1 of zenba is {do}, not the plate. The speaker is asking the listener if
they would like to increase in the property of how much milk has been
consumed. To me, that definitely means "Would you like (to drink) more
milk?"


> In context, when one wants "more peas", one has already eaten the peas
> that were on the plate, and thus the additional serving isn't really an
> increase, but a repetition of the serving, and hence krefu would be a
> better basis.
>

The additional serving constitutes a hypothetical increase in the amount of
food eaten. I think that the gloss of my example demonstrates this.


>
> So how about
> pei krefu tu'a loi [peas]
>

{krefu} is a very nice alternative, but to be perfectly honest, I think
{zenba} is nicer. I think that {.i xu do djica lo nu zenba lo ka citka loi
xokau <peas>} is perfectly sensible, context-free. It's just that in
context, shortening to a tanru is more practical, and considering that
context is nearly always present in the case of Robin and his daughters,
using this tanru seems to make a lot of sense.

As for {krefu}, we could either use that word directly, or perhaps use a
tense: {.i <food> citka za'u re'u .au pei}

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On 10 July 2013 08:08, Bob LeChevalier, President and Foun=
der - LLG <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojbab@lojban.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lojbab@lojban.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_=
extra">

<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im"=
>Jacob Errington wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
How about {zenba}?<br>
<br>
.i xu do djica lo nu zenba lo ka (ba&#39;o) pinxe lo ladru xokaumei<br>
Obviously, that&#39;s way to long to be productive, but {.i .aupei ladru<br=
>
pinxe zenba} ?<br>
&quot;Do you want to increase in the property of &lt;how much milk you have=
 drunk&gt;.&quot;<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I think the problem with the formulations proposed in this thread is that t=
hey are all ambiguous, with the obvious context-free meaning probably not t=
he one that we want.<br>
<br>
zenba, zmadu, jmina all seem likely for expressing that one might like a la=
rger portion dished out onto the plate that still has the original portion.=
<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>They could be used for that, but in th=
e case of zenba which I propose, the x1 of zenba is {do}, not the plate. Th=
e speaker is asking the listener if they would like to increase in the prop=
erty of how much milk has been consumed. To me, that definitely means &quot=
;Would you like (to drink) more milk?&quot;</div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
In context, when one wants &quot;more peas&quot;, one has already eaten the=
 peas that were on the plate, and thus the additional serving isn&#39;t rea=
lly an increase, but a repetition of the serving, and hence krefu would be =
a better basis.<br>

</blockquote><div><br></div><div>The additional serving constitutes a hypot=
hetical increase in the amount of food eaten. I think that the gloss of my =
example demonstrates this.</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">


<br>
So how about<br>
pei krefu tu&#39;a loi [peas]<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>{krefu} i=
s a very nice alternative, but to be perfectly honest, I think {zenba} is n=
icer. I think that {.i xu do djica lo nu zenba lo ka citka loi xokau &lt;pe=
as&gt;} is perfectly sensible, context-free. It&#39;s just that in context,=
 shortening to a tanru is more practical, and considering that context is n=
early always present in the case of Robin and his daughters, using this tan=
ru seems to make a lot of sense.</div>

<div><br></div><div>As for {krefu}, we could either use that word directly,=
 or perhaps use a tense: {.i &lt;food&gt; citka za&#39;u re&#39;u .au pei}<=
/div><div>=A0</div><div>.i mi&#39;e la tsani mu&#39;o</div></div></div></di=
v>

<p></p>

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