Received: from mail-la0-f64.google.com ([209.85.215.64]:51955) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Uy4Zb-0001NV-TN for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 11:29:40 -0700 Received: by mail-la0-f64.google.com with SMTP id fq12sf1901259lab.19 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 11:29:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-provags-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=YDMjUNTy6yrYsomJLUzq5ukXd3fUPeN+1acH7ccOXb4=; b=d3TxjkTlnx21BsiDTzMV1H+MvnD/k2ENls98OCzOttDGLezJaOIVbUsf0NFWp3yZap Oeo+NOOHtBgQNrDEZJDYjpun8JO7iYzR/ZAWeYclat+WKPjXcRCpumtqdddET+cI7HIi hYIYBTY62e8RUIVaa5h/zifRwBVXMcK01Z9IA0oRtEoO7n4fSDsDMNf3nHSXz+Kt1eUL gbul7eF7xcsOhikcrjHPHk53HrJleGKkJj+JlWH8X4xZ3TuX+zNGrkExH1W3SzS/jo2r /Hzr5oiFHEyfXXip9xipjDM0ZjoYkpdPzsycZd3x3dcp+cHD9bKYT04Ji8tc9qPj0Bqr HKUA== X-Received: by 10.180.13.47 with SMTP id e15mr279299wic.9.1373740167684; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 11:29:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.87.200 with SMTP id ba8ls368440wib.5.gmail; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 11:29:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.15.25.1 with SMTP id k1mr54345387eeu.6.1373740167194; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 11:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net. [212.227.15.18]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id ci6si4679270eeb.1.2013.07.13.11.29.27 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 11:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.15.18 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.15.18; Received: from [192.168.2.100] ([84.175.67.84]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx003) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LcShi-1UHcUC45qQ-00jtN9 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2013 20:29:27 +0200 Message-ID: <51E19C86.80901@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2013 20:29:26 +0200 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Baby words: "more". References: <20130708172215.GA4227@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> In-Reply-To: <20130708172215.GA4227@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:swAsQAyY1eaZ8hKDoWoP90fxdQu0XTR0gIRweV2tgQrOgbB7eye 5FCoXdXBX6cIKOak0PEQbh2TlL1MIfZALNhNwtvRGeihPxwl4+PwPxCdvsm6eIftJCZguiO dM2UGA4NHZnHQ24mJMYHDgFYwZHa2dUD/73ysA12T71aEl3RCQYv47Z0neHbZeodMsFR9ww 8wBpUgS7lDuZGrYfszdWA== X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.15.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / The problem with {za'u} is that it doesn't seem to do what is wanted, irrespective of default values. If {xo'e} is the amount of food already eaten, then {za'u xo'e} in * mi djica tu'a za'u [xo'e] lo cidja would mean that I want to eat however much I already had plus some unspecified amount of extra food, instead of only eating the extra amount. However, when looking at it from a different angle, the previous sentence suddenly makes sense: "I desire that there be an event of me eating more than I have currently eaten", and this event "replaces" the current event instead of being a seperate event that is being added after it (which was the case in the previous example). Then, {za'u} would actually seem to work. For example: mi citka ci plise .i na banzu .i djica tu'a za'u [xo'e/ci] plise "I ate three apples. That's not enough. I want [to eat] more than three apples." So here, {za'u} doesn't directly mean "additional", but the comparison between the actual and desired events entails that additional apples be desired. The important point to note is that the djica2-event is not a seperate event, but envelops the previous/current event of eating three apples and extends it, to an event of eating more than three apples. I think this means there isn't really a problem with {za'u}, then. It just works for different reasons than one might think (or maybe it's obvious). mu'o mi'e la selpa'i -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.