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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 08:02:36 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKOEKkQKVQrveTK3rSR+nQsaBYBRnu+t-ci97bJX8635B=dYMA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] How to read out loud a written ZOI quote containing a picture?
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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  Okay, first of all, you set up a straw man.  zoi quotes specifically
break the audio-visual isomorphism of the language.  That's what it and
la'o are designed to do.  When you say "zoi gy house gy valsi zo valsi la
gliban" You cannot pronounce that as written in lojban.  zoi means "I'm
about to tell you/show you something that isn't lojbanic.  So don't worry
if the sounds and print don't match.  In fact, I may not be able to read
this sentence out loud/write this sentence down.  After all, not everything
is available in all modes of communication.  I can't transmit a smell in
either sound or written words, I can only describe it...."

                     --gejyspa


On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Hello everybody!
>
> I've been wondering something for a while about ZOI quotes. They exist fo=
r
> enabling incorporating things that aren't Lojbanic text or utterance into=
 a
> Lojban sentence. For instance they ebable you inserting visual things tha=
t
> aren't Lojban text, such as foreign language writting or pictures (writte=
n
> medium), or non-Lojbanic utterances or sounds (spoken speech).
>
> This is certainly quite useful, but it results in a break in the
> audio-visual isomorphism of the langage. This isn't much of a problem wit=
h
> foreign language quotes (provided that the reader knows the language used=
),
> phonetic transcriptions and other codings that have both a written and a
> spoken form; however, pictures and non-linguistics sounds (for example) a=
re
> more problematic.
>
> My questions are the followings:
> =E2=80=A2 How to read out loud a written ZOI quote containing a picture?
> =E2=80=A2 How to write down a spoken ZOI quote containing non-linguistic =
sounds?
>
> If there were a way to replace (in direct quotes/transcriptions) the
> content of the ZOI quote with an alternative Lojbanic description (such a=
s
> a description of the picture within such a quote), this would solve this
> problem, but I can't think of a clean way of doing so without altering to=
o
> much the sentence content (thus breaking direct quotation/transcription).
> For instance, {to'i} doesn't seem of much help here. :)
>
> Any idea or comment would be greatly appreciated. =E2=99=AA
>
> mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o
>
>
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>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 Okay, first of all, you set up a straw man. =C2=A0z=
oi quotes specifically break the audio-visual isomorphism of the language. =
=C2=A0That&#39;s what it and la&#39;o are designed to do. =C2=A0When you sa=
y &quot;zoi gy house gy valsi zo valsi la gliban&quot; You cannot pronounce=
 that as written in lojban. =C2=A0zoi means &quot;I&#39;m about to tell you=
/show you something that isn&#39;t lojbanic. =C2=A0So don&#39;t worry if th=
e sounds and print don&#39;t match. =C2=A0In fact, I may not be able to rea=
d this sentence out loud/write this sentence down. =C2=A0After all, not eve=
rything is available in all modes of communication. =C2=A0I can&#39;t trans=
mit a smell in either sound or written words, I can only describe it....&qu=
ot;<div>
<br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--gejyspa</div><div><br><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 14, 20=
13 at 7:27 AM, Ilmen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ilmen.pokebip@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <font face=3D"Tahoma">Hello everybody!<br>
      <br>
      I&#39;ve been wondering something for a while about ZOI quotes. They
      exist for enabling incorporating things that aren&#39;t Lojbanic text
      or utterance into a Lojban sentence. For instance they ebable you
      inserting visual things that aren&#39;t Lojban text, such as foreign
      language writting or pictures (written medium), or non-Lojbanic
      utterances or sounds (spoken speech).<br>
      <br>
      This is certainly quite useful, but it results in a break in the
      audio-visual isomorphism of the langage. This isn&#39;t much of a
      problem with foreign language quotes (provided that the reader
      knows the language used), phonetic transcriptions and other
      codings that have both a written and a spoken form; however,
      pictures and non-linguistics sounds (for example) are more
      problematic.<br>
      <br>
      My questions are the followings:<br>
      =E2=80=A2 How to read out loud a written ZOI quote containing a pictu=
re?<br>
      =E2=80=A2 How to write down a spoken ZOI quote containing non-linguis=
tic
      sounds?<br>
      <br>
      If there were a way to replace (in direct quotes/transcriptions)
      the content of the ZOI quote with an alternative Lojbanic
      description (such as a description of the picture within such a
      quote), this would solve this problem, but I can&#39;t think of a
      clean way of doing so without altering too much the sentence
      content (thus breaking direct quotation/transcription). For
      instance, {to&#39;i} doesn&#39;t seem of much help here. :)<br>
      <br>
      Any idea or comment would be greatly appreciated. =E2=99=AA<br>
      <br>
      mi&#39;e la .ilmen. mu&#39;o<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#88=
8888"><br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </font></span></font><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
  </font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">


<p></p>

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=C2=A0<br>
=C2=A0<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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