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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 14:48:53 +0200
From: Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] How to read out loud a written ZOI quote containing a picture?
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Okay, thank you for your reply. =E2=99=AA

Still, I'd like to know how you'd do if you were to read a Lojban text=20
out loud for somebody else (whatever situation requiring reading a text=20
out loud; phone call, reading for a blind person, etc.). You're reading=20
out loud a text and suddenly you come across a zoi quote containing some=20
symbol or picture. What do you say?

What about { [co'e li'o] fi zoi pixra. .pixra  to'i ri pixra lo nanmu=20
noi sanli lo rokci toi  [li'o] } (empty zoi quote + editorial unquote),=20
or something in this fashion?

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o
_________________

Michael Turniansky a =C3=A9crit :
>   Okay, first of all, you set up a straw man.  zoi quotes specifically=20
> break the audio-visual isomorphism of the language.  That's what it=20
> and la'o are designed to do.  When you say "zoi gy house gy valsi zo=20
> valsi la gliban" You cannot pronounce that as written in lojban.  zoi=20
> means "I'm about to tell you/show you something that isn't lojbanic.=20
>  So don't worry if the sounds and print don't match.  In fact, I may=20
> not be able to read this sentence out loud/write this sentence down.=20
>  After all, not everything is available in all modes of communication.=20
>  I can't transmit a smell in either sound or written words, I can only=20
> describe it...."
>
>                       --gejyspa
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com=20
> <mailto:ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hello everybody!
>
>     I've been wondering something for a while about ZOI quotes. They
>     exist for enabling incorporating things that aren't Lojbanic text
>     or utterance into a Lojban sentence. For instance they ebable you
>     inserting visual things that aren't Lojban text, such as foreign
>     language writting or pictures (written medium), or non-Lojbanic
>     utterances or sounds (spoken speech).
>
>     This is certainly quite useful, but it results in a break in the
>     audio-visual isomorphism of the langage. This isn't much of a
>     problem with foreign language quotes (provided that the reader
>     knows the language used), phonetic transcriptions and other
>     codings that have both a written and a spoken form; however,
>     pictures and non-linguistics sounds (for example) are more
>     problematic.
>
>     My questions are the followings:
>     =E2=80=A2 How to read out loud a written ZOI quote containing a pictu=
re?
>     =E2=80=A2 How to write down a spoken ZOI quote containing non-linguis=
tic
>     sounds?
>
>     If there were a way to replace (in direct quotes/transcriptions)
>     the content of the ZOI quote with an alternative Lojbanic
>     description (such as a description of the picture within such a
>     quote), this would solve this problem, but I can't think of a
>     clean way of doing so without altering too much the sentence
>     content (thus breaking direct quotation/transcription). For
>     instance, {to'i} doesn't seem of much help here. :)
>
>     Any idea or comment would be greatly appreciated. =E2=99=AA
>
>     mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o
>

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">
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    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix"><font face=3D"Tahoma">Okay, thank you fo=
r
        your reply. =E2=99=AA<br>
        <br>
        Still, I'd like to know how you'd do if you were to read a
        Lojban text out loud for somebody else (whatever situation
        requiring reading a text out loud; phone call, reading for a
        blind person, etc.). You're reading out loud a text and suddenly
        you come across a zoi quote containing some symbol or picture.
        What do you say?<br>
        <br>
        What about <font color=3D"#115533">{ [co'e li'o] fi zoi pixra.=C2=
=A0
          .pixra=C2=A0 to'i ri pixra lo nanmu noi sanli lo rokci toi=C2=A0 =
[li'o]
          }</font> (empty zoi quote + editorial unquote), or something
        in this fashion?<br>
        <br>
        mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o<br>
        _________________<br>
        <br>
        Michael Turniansky a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:</font><br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite=3D"mid:CAKOEKkQKVQrveTK3rSR+nQsaBYBRnu+t-ci97bJX8635B=3DdYMA@mail.gmai=
l.com"
      type=3D"cite">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 Okay, first of all, you set up a straw man. =
=C2=A0zoi
        quotes specifically break the audio-visual isomorphism of the
        language. =C2=A0That's what it and la'o are designed to do. =C2=A0W=
hen you
        say "zoi gy house gy valsi zo valsi la gliban" You cannot
        pronounce that as written in lojban. =C2=A0zoi means "I'm about to
        tell you/show you something that isn't lojbanic. =C2=A0So don't wor=
ry
        if the sounds and print don't match. =C2=A0In fact, I may not be ab=
le
        to read this sentence out loud/write this sentence down. =C2=A0Afte=
r
        all, not everything is available in all modes of communication.
        =C2=A0I can't transmit a smell in either sound or written words, I
        can only describe it...."
        <div><br>
          <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 --gejyspa</div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Ilmen
          <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
              href=3D"mailto:ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ilm=
en.pokebip@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"> <font face=3D"Tahoma=
">Hello
                everybody!<br>
                <br>
                I've been wondering something for a while about ZOI
                quotes. They exist for enabling incorporating things
                that aren't Lojbanic text or utterance into a Lojban
                sentence. For instance they ebable you inserting visual
                things that aren't Lojban text, such as foreign language
                writting or pictures (written medium), or non-Lojbanic
                utterances or sounds (spoken speech).<br>
                <br>
                This is certainly quite useful, but it results in a
                break in the audio-visual isomorphism of the langage.
                This isn't much of a problem with foreign language
                quotes (provided that the reader knows the language
                used), phonetic transcriptions and other codings that
                have both a written and a spoken form; however, pictures
                and non-linguistics sounds (for example) are more
                problematic.<br>
                <br>
                My questions are the followings:<br>
                =E2=80=A2 How to read out loud a written ZOI quote containi=
ng a
                picture?<br>
                =E2=80=A2 How to write down a spoken ZOI quote containing
                non-linguistic sounds?<br>
                <br>
                If there were a way to replace (in direct
                quotes/transcriptions) the content of the ZOI quote with
                an alternative Lojbanic description (such as a
                description of the picture within such a quote), this
                would solve this problem, but I can't think of a clean
                way of doing so without altering too much the sentence
                content (thus breaking direct quotation/transcription).
                For instance, {to'i} doesn't seem of much help here. :)<br>
                <br>
                Any idea or comment would be greatly appreciated. =E2=99=AA=
<br>
                <br>
                mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o</font><br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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