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[64.12.143.75]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s6si5121880qcy.0.2013.07.24.17.17.30 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Jul 2013 17:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of almikes@aol.com designates 64.12.143.75 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.12.143.75; Received: from mtaout-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.134]) by omr-m01.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 3209F700000A3 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 20:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (p549FABE4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.159.171.228]) by mtaout-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 654D7E0000DC for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 20:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 02:17:25 +0200 From: Wuzzy To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: [lojban] idea: selma'o fu'ivla Message-ID: <20130725021725.3ce55578@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338651f06e983017 X-AOL-IP: 84.159.171.228 X-Original-Sender: almikes@aol.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of almikes@aol.com designates 64.12.143.75 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=almikes@aol.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mx.aol.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Problem: To refer to a selma'o in Lojban. Solution: There are already some of these. But none of these does the most obvious thing: Creating new brivla to fill the x2 place of =E2=80=9Ccm= avo=E2=80=9D. My solution: Create a bunch of stage-3 fu'ivla which refer to a selma'o each. It works like this: Use =E2=80=9Ccmavo=E2=80=9D as gismu and append the low= er-case=E2=80=99d name of the selma'o you want to translate. Examples: =E2=80=9CBAI=E2=80=9D =E2=86=92 =E2=80=9Ccmavrbai=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CDOhU=E2=80=9D =E2=86=92 =E2=80=9Ccmavrdo'u=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CROI=E2=80=9D =E2=86=92 =E2=80=9Ccmavnroi=E2=80=9D (rare case of = =E2=80=9Cn=E2=80=9D hyphen here) The only purpose of a selma'o fu'ivla is to refer to a selma'o, nothing more. Thus, the definition of a selma'o fu'ivla is like =E2=80=9Cx1 is the selma'o BAI.=E2=80=9D.=20 Remaining problems: fu'ivla do not allow =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D nor do they allow a vowel right af= ter the gismu part. Thus, there has to be some kind of hacking around the names of the selma'o =E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CBY=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CI=E2=80=9D, =E2= =80=9CY=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CUI=E2=80=9D. My current attempt is to use =E2= =80=9Clr=E2=80=9D as seperator if the selma'o name does not contain a =E2=80=9CY=E2=80=9D. If= it does contain a =E2=80=9CY=E2=80=9D, I append a valsi which best describes the se= lma'o. Here=E2=80=99s the list of irregegular selma'o fu'ivla produced with above rules: A cmavlra =09 BY cmavrlerfu from {lerfu} I cmavlri =09 UI cmavlrui =09 Y cmavrdepsna from {depsna} Using =E2=80=9Clr=E2=80=9D as seperator is kind of a hack and personally do= not like it very much since there is an =E2=80=9Cl=E2=80=9D hyphen used although it is not neccessary here. However, the =E2=80=9Cl=E2=80=9D m= akes clear that the following =E2=80=9Cr=E2=80=9D is not part of the derived selma'o n= ame. =E2=80=9Ccmavnra=E2=80=9D, for example, could be misunderstood as =E2=80=9C= RA=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D. However, the vast majority (>110 out of 120) of the selma'o are completely regular. Most of them have the form =E2=80=9Ccmavr=E2=80=9D + se= lma'o name. Example sentence: =E2=80=9Czo dau cmavo lo cmavrpa=E2=80=9D translates to =E2=80=9C=E2=80=98d= au=E2=80=99 is in the selma'o =E2=80=98PA=E2=80=99.=E2=80=9D. I even wrote a proposal on: It is a bit more complete than this e-mail. It also contains some algorithms (spaghetti code!) to create a list. But beware, it=E2=80=99s still the very first draft. Comments? Ideas? --=20 Wuzzy XMPP: Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.