Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c01::235;
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <51F2A607.2080302@lojban.org>
References: <51F15A4D.3030805@lojban.org>
	<51F2A607.2080302@lojban.org>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 16:41:09 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+gZtgLfQ8SSkv6-xXcKQCOqoZ1a7PbSS=RE1Fz0cgovQVafcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] MEX ROI, MEX MOI, MEX MAI
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b414176a5861b04e2702931
X-Spam_score: 0.1
X-Spam_score_int: 1
X-Spam_bar: /
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has
 identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
 has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 the administrator of that system for details.
 
 Content preview:  On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Bob LeChevalier, President
    and Founder - LLG <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote: > There is no official goal
   to get a PEG working *(and personally, I've > never understood why anyone
   would want to).* > Because the YACC doesn't actually implement terminator
   elision, despite it being in the core definition of the language and essential
    to its use by humans. jbofihe does this via a separate exception handling
    mechanism, that is, it does a pass, fails, inserts a terminator, does a pass,
    etc. (The positive effect of this is that jbofihe can show elided terminators
    quite easily. Coercing camxes into doing this would take a lot of additional
    code, and probably some hand parsing of the camxes output.) [...] 
 
 Content analysis details:   (0.1 points, 5.0 required)
 
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
  0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED          ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked.
                             See
                             http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block
                              for more information.
                             [URIs: lojban.org]
  0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM          Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
                             (blindbravado[at]gmail.com)
  0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED   No valid author signature, adsp_override is
                             CUSTOM_MED
 -0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
  0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
  0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid
  0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID         DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid

--047d7b414176a5861b04e2702931
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder -
LLG <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:

> There is no official goal to get a PEG working *(and personally, I've
> never understood why anyone would want to).*
>
Because the YACC doesn't actually implement terminator elision, despite it
being in the core definition of the language and essential to its use by
humans. jbofihe does this via a separate exception handling mechanism, that
is, it does a pass, fails, inserts a terminator, does a pass, etc. (The
positive effect of this is that jbofihe can show elided terminators quite
easily. Coercing camxes into doing this would take a lot of additional
code, and probably some hand parsing of the camxes output.)

Because the lookahead restrictions result in counterintuitive-to-humans
requirements, such as the KU in LE SELBRI KU JOI LE SELBRI. The intuitive
elision rule "while parsefail, add next elidable terminator" is not
consistent with this requirement*, and this requirement is removed in the
PEG. (It'd also be removed in an LR(k) parser with higher k, but I digress.)

Because Magic Words are handled absolutely atrociously, in numerous
different ways. The most blatant examples I can think of are "defective
erasure" (zo si si zei broda) and "partially parsed ZOI" (such as {zo zoi
gy text gy}), neither of which should even parse in the first place.

*Computationally, it actually is consistent, since the parse failure will
continue forever unless you look two symbols ahead. This is basically
irrelevant to my point, since it is a point about human intuition.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.


--047d7b414176a5861b04e2702931
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On F=
ri, Jul 26, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojbab@lojban.org" target=3D"_blank=
">lojbab@lojban.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">There is no official goal to get a PEG worki=
ng <b>(and personally, I&#39;ve never understood why anyone would want to).=
</b><br>
</blockquote><div>Because the YACC doesn&#39;t actually implement terminato=
r elision, despite it being in the core definition of the language and esse=
ntial to its use by humans. jbofihe does this via a separate exception hand=
ling mechanism, that is, it does a pass, fails, inserts a terminator, does =
a pass, etc. (The positive effect of this is that jbofihe can show elided t=
erminators quite easily. Coercing camxes into doing this would take a lot o=
f additional code, and probably some hand parsing of the camxes output.)<br=
>
<br></div><div>Because the lookahead restrictions result in counterintuitiv=
e-to-humans requirements, such as the KU in LE SELBRI KU JOI LE SELBRI. The=
 intuitive elision rule &quot;while parsefail, add next elidable terminator=
&quot; is not consistent with this requirement*, and this requirement is re=
moved in the PEG. (It&#39;d also be removed in an LR(k) parser with higher =
k, but I digress.)<br>
<br></div><div>Because Magic Words are handled absolutely atrociously, in n=
umerous different ways. The most blatant examples I can think of are &quot;=
defective erasure&quot; (zo si si zei broda) and &quot;partially parsed ZOI=
&quot; (such as {zo zoi gy text gy}), neither of which should even parse in=
 the first place.<br>
<br></div><div>*Computationally, it actually is consistent, since the parse=
 failure will continue forever unless you look two symbols ahead. This is b=
asically irrelevant to my point, since it is a point about human intuition.=
<br>
<br></div><div>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o<br></div></div><br></div></=
div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http:=
//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

--047d7b414176a5861b04e2702931--