Received: from mail-ob0-f188.google.com ([209.85.214.188]:41652) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1V2y0R-0007An-M2 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:29:45 -0700 Received: by mail-ob0-f188.google.com with SMTP id f8sf100292obp.5 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:29:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=P1ARZYvNy9qrOp6P6KyCrk9MDuE6Q2VFRcsdZU0BDys=; b=DxAZrC1wH6so3cRuN3Ax9lJoxKC4j8fRDrkIbXGDS/u2iBvhpx73lSLDbOxwfUzlUV bW9rx3lpDwbFIqJCkkliMrQPL92ONq/hMpXtKaED3PahXAgYsZesmQCHS1QIeokiE9c0 lPxMCcNglMaOTYVntQ/1sbxpco372yw9MVQ2Wc+OlN0GQZediMHyreBZ7tEqCVcT6dEQ 9+BxvY/82VeJtCSRya1D+JW1lFT+yHC54fIf9t4PSPaoEW1Meyqs/46XcypExRfBs91u fAkQRJGZQwd/Zw1PL8qWb8f7JFt9ZVPrACo7JQrQWgArLEZv/AsnfXB4hG0mV4gnFqSm S1dg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=P1ARZYvNy9qrOp6P6KyCrk9MDuE6Q2VFRcsdZU0BDys=; b=xJrXfc5LkfNVRn+xAJdSWxl2ByxKFzUZMRp2DdNqsTKJ25WtCS/0RgfBhIACXOWgfj 8+b7sHqTfbrb1Y9R+NP1mBwLgDUNzQhVAlXa93e5uJKiAFqYg8a7oaWt4/nAdwm01y1k P7qLIoLyF3hkof3s2T9OmDXF9T1sPqLFctV+g+s/vtbK706z2XNepiVE/1JD79TyvFEj CmwPYXiJJcBV5h7pvEAz/IsRk7/d6O64N8fqsJpsdZ5ZStFmcjBryZdqQvrsNzqd5X3H 6WlPVjiWaTjj8/UJHzfgIPZiFU2XwpIRNTHwZrfbRymXwalCcPBO5y+Mc8SpPpxBsnjU ff8A== X-Received: by 10.49.96.6 with SMTP id do6mr947600qeb.35.1374906565567; Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:29:25 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.26.70 with SMTP id j6ls1338781qeg.94.gmail; Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:29:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.81.208 with SMTP id c16mr524772qey.34.1374906564268; Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 23:29:23 -0700 (PDT) From: la arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <57d7137b-09dd-459a-93af-a0c4c6d05a4b@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: umami taste MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_814_12807461.1374906563792" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_814_12807461.1374906563792 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:50:41 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: > > Except that "gay" still does mean what it did when the definition was > written, so the meaning wasn't changed at all. > > The *interpretation* of the word "gay" in the U.S. has changed, but > that's the fault of the populace. :) > ke'u I suggest this because we already have a registered incident on IRC when one nintadni thought that {gleki} covered the sense of {mitcinpa'i} as well. This is NOT the problem of Lojban. This is only the problem of English changing. If "gay" no longer means "merry" (or it's almost never used in such sense nowadays) then the definition should be changed accordingly. (And no one forbids you to translate gimste to "Old English" zo'o) > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:59 PM, la arxokuna > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:20:42 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote: >>> >>> Of course, "umami" can also be an adjective in English. All you have to >>> do is use it that way. >>> >> >> Unfortunately not all people know what is umami. So I added this awkward >> wording "has umami taste" to explicitly show what I'm talking about. >> When more people learn about this word the *English* definition might be >> changed (without changing lojbani semantics). >> >> E.g. recently in bpfk-list I suggested changing the definition of {gleki} >> from >> x1 is happy/merry/gay/glad/gleeful about x2 (event/state). >> to >> x1 is happy/merry/glad/gleeful about x2 (event/state). >> >> just because one English word completely changed it's meaning. >> >> >> >>> stevo >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:16 PM, wrote: >>> >>>> There aren't gismu for all the accepted ground tastes? I'm surprised. >>>> >>>> krumami - x1 has an umami taste to observer x2. >>>> titla - x1 is sweet/sugary/saccharine to observer x2. >>>> slari - x1 is sour/tart to observer x2. >>>> kurki - x1 is bitter/acrid/sharply disagreeable to observer/sense x2. >>>> >>>> So far so good. But then: >>>> >>>> silna - x1 is a portion/quantity of salt from source x2, of composition >>>> including x3. >>>> >>>> Surely a bare "silna" can't be good to use in this context since it >>>> actually refers to the physical salt (which is not clear, are we strictly >>>> speaking NaCl here or all salts - ionic compounds?). >>>> >>>> Good you added krumami. That is *extremely welcomed* by me. But, I >>>> would considering changing the definition to be more in line with the >>>> others. My proposal: >>>> krumami - x1 is umami to observer x2. >>>> >>>> (...Ehm. You may ignore the above. I actually thought umami was an >>>> adjective as well in English, since that would be logical. Unfortunately, I >>>> can't find any proof of it.) >>>> >>>> Still. I miss the: >>>> x1 is salty to observer x2 >>>> >>>> Am I missing something? >>>> >>>> mi'e la .gusek. mu'o >>>> >>>> Den tisdagen den 16:e juli 2013 kl. 09:54:06 UTC+2 skrev la arxokuna: >>>> >>>>> {krumami} >>>>> >>>>> x1 has umami taste to observer x2. >>>>> >>>>> Etymology: Romance [karo], Mandarin [rou4] ("meat"), Japanese [umami] >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to lojban+un...@**googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group/lojban >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_814_12807461.1374906563792 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Saturday, July 27, 2013 9:50:41 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:Except that "gay" still does mean what = it did when the definition was written, so the meaning wasn't changed at al= l.

The interpretation of the word "gay" in the U.S. has chang= ed, but that's the fault of the populace. :)

ke'u
I suggest this because we already have a registered in= cident on IRC when one nintadni thought that {gleki} covered the sense of {= mitcinpa'i} as well.
This is NOT the problem of Lojban. This is o= nly the problem of English changing.

If "gay" no l= onger means "merry" (or it's almost never used in such sense nowadays) then= the definition should be changed accordingly.

(And no one forbids you to translate gimste to "Old English" zo= 'o) 


On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:59 PM, la arxokuna= <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:


On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:20:42 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:
Of course, "umami" can= also be an adjective in English. All you have to do is use it that way.&nb= sp;

Unfortunately not all people know wh= at is umami. So I added this awkward wording "has umami taste" to explicitl= y show what I'm talking about.
When more people learn about this = word the *English* definition might be changed (without changing lojbani se= mantics).

E.g. recently in bpfk-list I suggested changing the def= inition of {gleki} from
x1 is happy/merry/gay/glad/gleeful about = x2 (event/state).
to 
x1 is happy/merry/glad/g= leeful about x2 (event/state).

just because one English word completely changed = it's meaning.



stevo


On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:16 PM, <gunnar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
There aren't gismu for all the ac= cepted ground tastes? I'm surprised.

krumami - x1 has an umami taste= to observer x2.
titla - x1 is sweet/sugary/saccharine to observer x2.
slari - x1 is sour= /tart to observer x2.
kurki - x1 is bitter/acrid/sharply disagreeable to= observer/sense x2.

So far so good. But then:

silna - x1 is a= portion/quantity of salt from source x2, of composition including x3.

Surely a bare "silna" can't be good to use in this context since it act= ually refers to the physical salt (which is not clear, are we strictly spea= king NaCl here or all salts - ionic compounds?).

Good you added krumami. That is extremely welcomed by me. But, I wou= ld considering changing the definition to be more in line with the others. = My proposal:
krumami - x1 is umami to observer x2.

(...Ehm. You may ignore the ab= ove. I actually thought umami was an adjective as well in English, since th= at would be logical. Unfortunately, I can't find any proof of it.)

Still. I miss the:
x1 is salty to observer x2

Am I missing so= mething?

mi'e la .gusek. mu'o

Den tisdagen den 16:e juli 2013= kl. 09:54:06 UTC+2 skrev la arxokuna:
{krumami}

x1 has= umami taste to observer x2.

Etymology: Romanc= e [karo], Mandarin [rou4] ("meat"), Japanese [umami]

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.




--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
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