Received: from mail-gg0-f191.google.com ([209.85.161.191]:61916) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1V33Ga-0001nG-R7 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:06:39 -0700 Received: by mail-gg0-f191.google.com with SMTP id u1sf1073886ggl.8 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:06:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=vkG1l8WFaC9MyNXjFLryPRtOz9tT+dG/DzDH1SBBjhA=; b=o7AHSM9/lYR9QPhzMgDAMtJ2Vg97SHF9Yg9at1cROgmY7E0/TNdzDs0em1/lzOVOcG m9tZvCnVhpQRC+KztegAQGhFULB6rfya5NdL9e8gp69ddQS1I0Y0gOQfHmVl/LIGuP1p 0UAOUEH7+g7pRfq/fPLFFTWZ+5R1W9/KudtXOD6q3TxhTcOz/lvHtKGJ+oRYT9iA2els ox4ue+iAkRQz7DYvRKYASFgnIDo1wvHZ3Fcs4bYysszXJ6GN0ZmqNCYpe6q4G2hgpP+A QCSoe3qDRLwoHTO6B9nzFBiK8U/5fggc5GjjP6mHCoFJFJSbo6/H2n992yVRyFc85t7S Y9LA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=vkG1l8WFaC9MyNXjFLryPRtOz9tT+dG/DzDH1SBBjhA=; b=BmH8y83cUiyQ+KrqHyLm1d1HnrRwiGGtxGZpOtvkXZndpR62LrJWrZUfpb0D24ep09 vWJaPXuEDe0L4ApIPVR1K7U8CuIZr3LlPDy+zR1EJOkiKeuaxpQi3RbBg9p1iG4H6Saz DvLb1FmZkKRYlQ3njrW1BGi+N6phhJ7C6k49z4VwhjyTzsxg+Xnn/hX//trpoDLnzAae DIXRG9aQsepvnCFOL/1aippPcuGI698mPKUgqbl9cOkZt4IQBPJ8PuBb8qVD6ml3bsCY ZdvojaiAjmEcsLuynIg/9j+z91k4AYV9ZhnAuxO+PXyBAP8AzN0pWiHx1gYDvR3RXCBk lm1Q== X-Received: by 10.49.64.37 with SMTP id l5mr1202573qes.32.1374926786707; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:06:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.51.66 with SMTP id i2ls114422qeo.87.gmail; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:06:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.164.45 with SMTP id yn13mr1164316vdb.5.1374926786280; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x236.google.com (mail-ve0-x236.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i10si70867vdf.2.2013.07.27.05.06.26 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::236 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::236; Received: by mail-ve0-f182.google.com with SMTP id m1so1516345ves.13 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:06:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.106.166 with SMTP id gv6mr249269vdb.31.1374926786137; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:06:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.241.138 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:05:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <57d7137b-09dd-459a-93af-a0c4c6d05a4b@googlegroups.com> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:05:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: umami taste To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5485a9eae43d404e27d1693 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam_score: 1.1 X-Spam_score_int: 11 X-Spam_bar: + X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: The interpretation IS the meaning. stevo On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:50 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: [...] Content analysis details: (1.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: **googlegroups.com] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (lytlesw[at]gmail.com) 1.2 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net [Blocked - see ] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature --bcaec5485a9eae43d404e27d1693 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The interpretation IS the meaning. stevo On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:50 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > Except that "gay" still does mean what it did when the definition was > written, so the meaning wasn't changed at all. > > The *interpretation* of the word "gay" in the U.S. has changed, but > that's the fault of the populace. :) > > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:59 PM, la arxokuna wrote: > >> >> >> On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:20:42 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote: >>> >>> Of course, "umami" can also be an adjective in English. All you have to >>> do is use it that way. >>> >> >> Unfortunately not all people know what is umami. So I added this awkward >> wording "has umami taste" to explicitly show what I'm talking about. >> When more people learn about this word the *English* definition might be >> changed (without changing lojbani semantics). >> >> E.g. recently in bpfk-list I suggested changing the definition of {gleki} >> from >> x1 is happy/merry/gay/glad/gleeful about x2 (event/state). >> to >> x1 is happy/merry/glad/gleeful about x2 (event/state). >> >> just because one English word completely changed it's meaning. >> >> >> >>> stevo >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:16 PM, wrote: >>> >>>> There aren't gismu for all the accepted ground tastes? I'm surprised. >>>> >>>> krumami - x1 has an umami taste to observer x2. >>>> titla - x1 is sweet/sugary/saccharine to observer x2. >>>> slari - x1 is sour/tart to observer x2. >>>> kurki - x1 is bitter/acrid/sharply disagreeable to observer/sense x2. >>>> >>>> So far so good. But then: >>>> >>>> silna - x1 is a portion/quantity of salt from source x2, of composition >>>> including x3. >>>> >>>> Surely a bare "silna" can't be good to use in this context since it >>>> actually refers to the physical salt (which is not clear, are we strictly >>>> speaking NaCl here or all salts - ionic compounds?). >>>> >>>> Good you added krumami. That is *extremely welcomed* by me. But, I >>>> would considering changing the definition to be more in line with the >>>> others. My proposal: >>>> krumami - x1 is umami to observer x2. >>>> >>>> (...Ehm. You may ignore the above. I actually thought umami was an >>>> adjective as well in English, since that would be logical. Unfortunately, I >>>> can't find any proof of it.) >>>> >>>> Still. I miss the: >>>> x1 is salty to observer x2 >>>> >>>> Am I missing something? >>>> >>>> mi'e la .gusek. mu'o >>>> >>>> Den tisdagen den 16:e juli 2013 kl. 09:54:06 UTC+2 skrev la arxokuna: >>>> >>>>> {krumami} >>>>> >>>>> x1 has umami taste to observer x2. >>>>> >>>>> Etymology: Romance [karo], Mandarin [rou4] ("meat"), Japanese [umami] >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to lojban+un...@**googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**group/lojban >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --bcaec5485a9eae43d404e27d1693 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The interpretation IS the meaning.=A0

s= tevo


On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:50 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
Except that "gay" still does mean = what it did when the definition was written, so the meaning wasn't chan= ged at all.

The interpretation of the word "gay" in the U.S. has c= hanged, but that's the fault of the populace. :)
<= div class=3D"h5">

On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 9:59 PM, la arxokuna= <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


On Saturday, July 27, 2013 12:20:42 AM UTC+4, stevo wrote:
Of course, "umami= " can also be an adjective in English. All you have to do is use it th= at way.=A0

Unfortunately not all people know wh= at is umami. So I added this awkward wording "has umami taste" to= explicitly show what I'm talking about.
When more people lea= rn about this word the *English* definition might be changed (without chang= ing lojbani semantics).

E.g. recently in bpfk-list I suggested changing the def= inition of {gleki} from
x1 is happy/merry/gay/glad/gleeful about = x2 (event/state).
to=A0
x1 is happy/merry/glad/glee= ful about x2 (event/state).

just because one English word completely changed = it's meaning.



stevo


On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 8:16 PM, <gunnar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
There aren't gismu for all th= e accepted ground tastes? I'm surprised.

krumami - x1 has an uma= mi taste to observer x2.
titla - x1 is sweet/sugary/saccharine to observer x2.
slari - x1 is sour= /tart to observer x2.
kurki - x1 is bitter/acrid/sharply disagreeable to= observer/sense x2.

So far so good. But then:

silna - x1 is a= portion/quantity of salt from source x2, of composition including x3.

Surely a bare "silna" can't be good to use in this contex= t since it actually refers to the physical salt (which is not clear, are we= strictly speaking NaCl here or all salts - ionic compounds?).

Good you added krumami. That is extremely welcomed by me. But, I wou= ld considering changing the definition to be more in line with the others. = My proposal:
krumami - x1 is umami to observer x2.

(...Ehm. You may ignore the ab= ove. I actually thought umami was an adjective as well in English, since th= at would be logical. Unfortunately, I can't find any proof of it.)

Still. I miss the:
x1 is salty to observer x2

Am I missing so= mething?

mi'e la .gusek. mu'o

Den tisdagen den 16:e j= uli 2013 kl. 09:54:06 UTC+2 skrev la arxokuna:
{krumami}

x1 has= umami taste to observer x2.

Etymology: Romanc= e [karo], Mandarin [rou4] ("meat"), Japanese [umami]

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. =A0
=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
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=A0
=A0



--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.<= br>
.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do = zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
=A0
=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
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