Received: from mail-qc0-f184.google.com ([209.85.216.184]:58542) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1V3aKr-0006kA-0E for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:25:19 -0700 Received: by mail-qc0-f184.google.com with SMTP id b10sf1579133qcw.1 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:25:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=HlVGEAcLe1T9O18LJxvNHkiBuImRclHU/xkgEP9jRMs=; b=F0aO0A1AdsrHD4zvjM052YPFMRT0iVAOVAYxV5jwG/G3yrV18KDXUFtvFnUmw4XP3z x9hgAExsO2J4nd+oP9x/wq+4pig6To7Nuv1fzofflJgWWbXRuGgJNCy87cTS9TxPGn+t 4bAnwxiJKJd9ZlkqiVbYF0U38KhpjlJUoM3AjYHqs1j4nIBk5n4j3b/Sf0WQqy07TlT1 GpfE+vdD9TJ/Kgg3lm/IzIQ+eRQEWSOeJ2KoKV6Dy5AwaZvLGzCcDHv1K6BDPxXecgcg tXQQbLRRbkZd2T4qfQfaAtsfA9ecgauuzyxyEw1VN1LXlQ/b4eBQgOcFj3K1a3WiaxJ0 l/DQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=HlVGEAcLe1T9O18LJxvNHkiBuImRclHU/xkgEP9jRMs=; b=JjW3Ta2rzLDtY6TnfipFGcK7yzb7i3QJ5263vz3cn+RSFDhG+t65sKD1E9pKSCi4/h tz0sqUQSj2rOAqf0kSx3QoG4YeAJ0oSHFtd6mI+yVsWPirHzRpkcvTwuH392yvMY0HKi YGjGGvWD1mgzVvQPgHAX5Qsqjw+/s5ke32C1lx+ZY+A13QoxcMzPqA5lphjf3CUtMpku 5KzIbTie1+sZFaJ3/dqktgFB3wrXTCzOtuSUiir6HQbKH4/i9XF0Ra7iTfNz4sLB48wj YeqB9BxXHvFHIHqCIzRzKM4/C+NCicWBLvaLXNLKY/60LvGiXrf1MdksJD7WqHpm0lB4 EeaA== X-Received: by 10.49.97.7 with SMTP id dw7mr1999824qeb.16.1375053902740; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:25:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.14.71 with SMTP id n7ls1970381qec.2.gmail; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:25:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.3.104 with SMTP id b8mr1990147qeb.25.1375053901751; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 16:25:01 -0700 (PDT) From: ianek To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <46c57e41-8304-4efb-a6a2-78cc787c2332@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <394521b4-21ba-4b66-8f6f-e16a0b15f621@googlegroups.com> References: <394521b4-21ba-4b66-8f6f-e16a0b15f621@googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: How to prevent nintadni from saying {la broda mi cmene} MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: janek37@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1463_27932690.1375053901450" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_1463_27932690.1375053901450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I somewhat agree. But the references in the gimste are not that strict, for= =20 example you can say {lo po'olska cmene mi} =97 'I have a Polish name'. mu'o mi'e ianek On Sunday, July 28, 2013 8:33:58 AM UTC+2, la arxokuna wrote: > > cmene x1 (quoted word(s)) is a/the name/title/tag of x2 to/used-by=20 > namer/name-user x3 (person). > cusku x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concept) for audienc= e=20 > x3 via expressive medium x4. > preti x1 (quoted text) is a question/query about subject x2 by questioner= =20 > x3 to audience x4. > zo quote next word only; quotes a single Lojban word (not a cmavo compoun= d=20 > or tanru). > zo'oi quote next non-Lojban word only; quotes a single non-Lojban word=20 > delimited by pauses (in speech) or whitespace (in writing) > lu start grammatical quotation; quoted text should be grammatical on its= =20 > own. > lo'u start questionable/out-of-context quote; text should be Lojban words= ,=20 > but needn't be grammatical. > > As you can see it can be called > 1. "quoted words" > 2. "text" > 3. "quoted text" > 4. "quote next word". > > I think this is the explanation of such mistakes. Nintadni don't realise= =20 > what should be put in what place and don't understand that those 4 terms= =20 > describe the same. > I think gimste should give clear references to selmaho/types allowed in= =20 > each sumti place. PEG doesn't group this type of sumti into one place, it= =20 > calls zo, lo'u "start left quote" or something. May be we should specify = a=20 > lojbanic term for that? > > Actually we have the same problem with ka/ni/nu/du'u in gimste. Nintadni= =20 > don't know what to put where leading to {kamsutra} jokes. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_1463_27932690.1375053901450 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I somewhat agree. But the references in the gimste are not that strict, for= example you can say {lo po'olska cmene mi} =97 'I have a Polish name'.
=
mu'o mi'e ianek

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 8:33:58 AM UTC+2, la ar= xokuna wrote:
cmene x1 (quoted = word(s)) is a/the name/title/tag of x2 to/used-by namer/name-user x3 (perso= n).
cusku x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concept) for a= udience x3 via expressive medium x4.
preti x1 (quoted text) = is a question/query about subject x2 by questioner x3 to audience x4.
=
zo quote next word only; quotes a single Lojban word (not a cmavo comp= ound or tanru).
zo'oi quote next non-Lojban word only; quotes a s= ingle non-Lojban word delimited by pauses (in speech) or whitespace (in wri= ting)
lu start grammatical quotation; quoted text should be gramm= atical on its own.
lo'u start questionable/out-of-context quote; = text should be Lojban words, but needn't be grammatical.

As you can see it can be called
1. "quoted words"
2. "text"
3. "quoted text"
4. "quote next word".<= br>

I think this is the explanation of such mistak= es. Nintadni don't realise what should be put in what place and don't under= stand that those 4 terms describe the same.
I think gimste should= give clear references to selmaho/types allowed in each sumti place. PEG do= esn't group this type of sumti into one place, it calls zo, lo'u "start lef= t quote" or something. May be we should specify a lojbanic term for that?

Actually we have the same problem with ka/ni/nu= /du'u in gimste. Nintadni don't know what to put where leading to {kamsutra= } jokes.

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