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Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 18:52:18 -0600
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: How to prevent nintadni from saying {la broda mi cmene}
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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 Content preview:  Looks to me like nintadni mistakenly think {la} is a quoting
    word like {zo}, which it isn't. Which means the problem isn't in the definition
    of {cmene} but in the teaching of {la}. On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 5:25 PM,
   ianek <janek37@gmail.com> wrote: [...] 
 
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Looks to me like nintadni mistakenly think {la} is a quoting word like
{zo}, which it isn't.

Which means the problem isn't in the definition of {cmene} but in the
teaching of {la}.

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 5:25 PM, ianek <janek37@gmail.com> wrote:

> I somewhat agree. But the references in the gimste are not that strict,
> for example you can say {lo po'olska cmene mi} =97 'I have a Polish name'=
.
>
> mu'o mi'e ianek
>
>
> On Sunday, July 28, 2013 8:33:58 AM UTC+2, la arxokuna wrote:
>>
>> cmene x1 (quoted word(s)) is a/the name/title/tag of x2 to/used-by
>> namer/name-user x3 (person).
>> cusku x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concept) for
>> audience x3 via expressive medium x4.
>> preti x1 (quoted text) is a question/query about subject x2 by questione=
r
>> x3 to audience x4.
>> zo quote next word only; quotes a single Lojban word (not a cmavo
>> compound or tanru).
>> zo'oi quote next non-Lojban word only; quotes a single non-Lojban word
>> delimited by pauses (in speech) or whitespace (in writing)
>> lu start grammatical quotation; quoted text should be grammatical on its
>> own.
>> lo'u start questionable/out-of-context quote; text should be Lojban
>> words, but needn't be grammatical.
>>
>> As you can see it can be called
>> 1. "quoted words"
>> 2. "text"
>> 3. "quoted text"
>> 4. "quote next word".
>>
>> I think this is the explanation of such mistakes. Nintadni don't realise
>> what should be put in what place and don't understand that those 4 terms
>> describe the same.
>> I think gimste should give clear references to selmaho/types allowed in
>> each sumti place. PEG doesn't group this type of sumti into one place, i=
t
>> calls zo, lo'u "start left quote" or something. May be we should specify=
 a
>> lojbanic term for that?
>>
>> Actually we have the same problem with ka/ni/nu/du'u in gimste. Nintadni
>> don't know what to put where leading to {kamsutra} jokes.
>>
>>  --
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>


--=20
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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Looks to me like nintadni mistakenly think {la} is a quoting word like {zo}=
, which it isn&#39;t.<br><br>Which means the problem isn&#39;t in the defin=
ition of {cmene} but in the teaching of {la}.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote">
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 5:25 PM, ianek <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:janek37@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">janek37@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> w=
rote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I somewhat agree. But the references in the gimste are not that strict, for=
 example you can say {lo po&#39;olska cmene mi} =97 &#39;I have a Polish na=
me&#39;.<br><br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e ianek<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"=
h5">
<br><br>On Sunday, July 28, 2013 8:33:58 AM UTC+2, la arxokuna wrote:<block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">cmene x1 (quoted word(s)) is a/the name/t=
itle/tag of x2 to/used-by namer/name-user x3 (person).<div>
cusku x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu&#39;u/text/lu&#39;e concept) for a=
udience x3 via expressive medium x4.</div><div>preti=A0x1 (quoted text) is =
a question/query about subject x2 by questioner x3 to audience x4.</div><di=
v>
zo quote next word only; quotes a single Lojban word (not a cmavo compound =
or tanru).</div><div>zo&#39;oi quote next non-Lojban word only; quotes a si=
ngle non-Lojban word delimited by pauses (in speech) or whitespace (in writ=
ing)</div>
<div>lu start grammatical quotation; quoted text should be grammatical on i=
ts own.</div><div>lo&#39;u start questionable/out-of-context quote; text sh=
ould be Lojban words, but needn&#39;t be grammatical.</div><div><br></div>
<div>As you can see it can be called<br></div><div>1. &quot;quoted words&qu=
ot;</div><div>2. &quot;text&quot;</div><div>3. &quot;quoted text&quot;</div=
><div>4. &quot;quote next word&quot;.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I think =
this is the explanation of such mistakes. Nintadni don&#39;t realise what s=
hould be put in what place and don&#39;t understand that those 4 terms desc=
ribe the same.</div>
<div>I think gimste should give clear references to selmaho/types allowed i=
n each sumti place. PEG doesn&#39;t group this type of sumti into one place=
, it calls zo, lo&#39;u &quot;start left quote&quot; or something. May be w=
e should specify a lojbanic term for that?<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>Actually we have the same problem with ka/ni/nu/d=
u&#39;u in gimste. Nintadni don&#39;t know what to put where leading to {ka=
msutra} jokes.</div><div><br></div></blockquote>

<p></p>

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=A0<br>
=A0<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>

<p></p>

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