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Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 10:32:47 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] where is the magic of {nau} as sumtcita?
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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 Well, I'm not sure "nau SUMTI" is meaningful, because nau is never
relative to some event.  It's always = "ca lo nu cusku dei kei ku" At best,
I might imagine that "nau lo nu broda" means approximately "oh, and by the
way, broda is happening RIGHT NOW"

  As for "ca",it's default is not "lo nu cusku lesedu'u nei ku kei ku",
because it's not dependent at all on when things were said, but rather when
they were done. I'd think the default of ca is most likely "lo nu no'a"
         --gejyspa


On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:30 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>wrote:

> http://dag.github.io/cll/10/15/
>
> The rule of English, therefore, is that both the tense of the main
> sentence and the tense of the subordinate clause are understood relative to
> the speaker of the main sentence (not John, but the person who speaks
> Examples 15.1 through 15.4).
>
> Lojban, like Russian and Esperanto, uses a different convention. A tense
> in a subordinate bridi is understood to be relative to the tense already
> set in the main bridi.
>
>
> i.e. when having no arguments {nau} has the default {le nu cusku dei kei
> ku} and in other words similar to long-scope {vo'a} in that it refers to
> the current sentence or utterance. Whereas {ca} has the default {le nu
> cusku lesedu'u nei kei ku kei ku}.
> Then if we use {nau} as a sumtcita then it's reference to the current
> sentence magically disappears.
>
> Is my understanding (especially about default sumti) correct?
>
> --
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<div dir=3D"ltr">=A0Well, I&#39;m not sure &quot;nau SUMTI&quot; is meaning=
ful, because nau is never relative to some event. =A0It&#39;s always =3D &q=
uot;ca lo nu cusku dei kei ku&quot; At best, I might imagine that &quot;nau=
 lo nu broda&quot; means approximately &quot;oh, and by the way, broda is h=
appening RIGHT NOW&quot;<div>
<br></div><div>=A0 As for &quot;ca&quot;,it&#39;s default is not &quot;lo n=
u cusku lesedu&#39;u nei ku kei ku&quot;, because it&#39;s not dependent at=
 all on when things were said, but rather when they were done. I&#39;d thin=
k the default of ca is most likely &quot;lo nu no&#39;a&quot;</div>
<div>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 5:30 =
AM, la arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:=
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><a href=3D"http://dag.github.io/cll/10/15/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://dag.github.io/cll/10/15/</a><br><div><br></div><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div><div>The rule of English, therefore, is that both the tense of the mai=
n sentence and the tense of the subordinate clause are understood relative =
to the speaker of the main sentence (not John, but the person who speaks Ex=
amples 15.1 through 15.4).</div>
</div><div><div><br></div></div><div><div>Lojban, like Russian and Esperant=
o, uses a different convention. A tense in a subordinate bridi is understoo=
d to be relative to the tense already set in the main bridi.</div></div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>i.e. when having no arguments {nau} has th=
e default {le nu cusku dei kei ku} and in other words similar to long-scope=
 {vo&#39;a} in that it refers to the current sentence or utterance. Whereas=
 {ca} has the default {le nu cusku lesedu&#39;u nei kei ku kei ku}.</div>
<div>Then if we use {nau} as a sumtcita then it&#39;s reference to the curr=
ent sentence magically disappears.</div><div><br></div><div>Is my understan=
ding (especially about default sumti) correct?</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb">=
<font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

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=A0<br>
=A0<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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