Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 85.13.138.119 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of me@v4hn.de) client-ip=85.13.138.119;
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:50:42 +0200
From: v4hn <me@v4hn.de>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: The Usability Project
Message-ID: <20130820225041.GO23845@samsa.fritz.box>
References: <a17334ab-ffc6-41bd-ae31-b57a95a5458e@googlegroups.com>
 <17dd38f8-c958-473e-be0c-64b115270fa7@googlegroups.com>
 <943f5a1c-e129-40d8-a8f9-3f5fbfbc641b@googlegroups.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qKhyKP9HH88saeqA"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <943f5a1c-e129-40d8-a8f9-3f5fbfbc641b@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /


--qKhyKP9HH88saeqA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Heya,

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 09:31:35AM -0700, Dmitriy Remselgin wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:35:34 PM UTC+6, la arxokuna wrote:
> > Yes,  that's why we imported the content of all old pages into our new=
=20
> > wiki. http://mw.lojban.org It uses the same engine as Wikipedia.
> > So everything that is possible for Wikipedia is possible for Jupiter si=
=20
> > Lojbanic Mediawiki (LMW, mw.lojban.org).

> Well done! But wiki is good for reference materials. A newbie will be=20
> overwhelmed if he or she tries to use wiki for learning.

Yes, most of it is for reference, and no first learner material.
Still, there is _a lot_ of learning material around:
L4B(the more modern "Lojban for newbies" is in the making)
and the wave lessons teach a lot. I for myself also count the CLL
as learning material, but not everyone likes that, right..

> > It parses well http://camxes.lojban.org/?text=3Dti%20nanca%20li%20xa
>=20
> Parses - yep, translates - nope. Though camxes is a great step in the rig=
ht=20
> direction, cause it uses visualization.

A parser and a translator are entirely different things and if you do
not mean to only rant against everyones efforts, but really help,
try to be more constructive. camxes is a great parser.
There is no direct translator (to whatever language) because these things a=
re
inherently hard to write if you don't want to fall back to statistics (whic=
h would
be really lame concerning lojban in my opinion).

> > So... I assume you can help, right?
>=20
> Surely. BTW, I'm a programmer. But obviously I cannot do all this work by=
=20
> myself.

You could at least get started. There already were many "Let's do something=
 great!"
projects which all stagnated because nobody did the work or nobody proposed
anything more precise than "let's improve stuff".

> We can add interactive elements, browser applications, games, consistent=
=20
> learning programs for different kinds of users, we can form translator=20
> teams, add special features for "lojban developers" and even for BFPK if =
it=20
> will countinue its work... Also we have to remove outdated resources from=
=20
> main site and store them as history in the wiki, for example.

Once more: first get started, _then_ write a mail looking for community fee=
dback/help
when people (and also you I presume) can see what you are aiming at.

> I have a lot of ideas, and *later I will make a detailed roadmap *about t=
his update.

Great to hear that, although your entire mail reads like "I don't like the =
way
things are, but I don't have time, and don't know how to concretely improve=
 the
situation. Maybe I'll someday get around to do something, but hopefully som=
ebody
else has enough time to do things." - Well sorry, but no, most likely not.
I'm eager to read your detailed roadmap proposals together with some stubs =
to
see what you're trying to do.


v4hn

--qKhyKP9HH88saeqA
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlIT8sEACgkQMBKLZs4+wjxJ7ACgjL6dZPcOoLjrjHlL4Fap28PH
9+UAn0po5uE3xH9gmP+Ud+K8oMB33bWJ
=MXcF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--qKhyKP9HH88saeqA--