Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 67.195.87.219 as permitted sender) client-ip=67.195.87.219;
Subject: Re: [lojban] The Usability Project
References: <a17334ab-ffc6-41bd-ae31-b57a95a5458e@googlegroups.com> <CAMKwHj1hLAu1LPviTt-LK+FEQBV0fw2j9=_DQg2fgs4KzS15uQ@mail.gmail.com> <68a1855d-32d6-4292-a8d2-3fc29da70bc2@googlegroups.com>
From: "John E. Clifford" <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <68a1855d-32d6-4292-a8d2-3fc29da70bc2@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <C379D479-7A96-4784-B185-0C2ADCED3243@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:22:05 -0500
To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary=Apple-Mail-9DACF6B0-D0F2-419B-A932-CE159FF2C44F
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam_score: 1.0
X-Spam_score_int: 10
X-Spam_bar: +
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has
 identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
 has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 the administrator of that system for details.
 
 Content preview:  Sent from my iPad On Aug 21, 2013, at 6:07, la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
    wrote: > > > On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:12:07 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
    > There are exactly two ways to get something done in the Lojban community:
    > > 1. Do it yourself. > > 2. Pay someone to do it for you. > > Ha, really?
    Last time even after offering money no one replied. [...] 
 
 Content analysis details:   (1.0 points, 5.0 required)
 
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
  0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED          ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked.
                             See
                             http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block
                              for more information.
                             [URIs: lojban.org]
  0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM          Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
                             (kali9putra[at]yahoo.com)
  0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED   No valid author signature, adsp_override is
                             CUSTOM_MED
 -0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
  1.0 FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD      'From' yahoo.com does not match 'Received' headers
  0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
  0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid
 -0.1 DKIM_VALID             Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature

--Apple-Mail-9DACF6B0-D0F2-419B-A932-CE159FF2C44F
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1


Sent from my iPad

On Aug 21, 2013, at 6:07, la arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

>=20
>=20
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:12:07 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
> There are exactly two ways to get something done in the Lojban community:
>=20
> 1. Do it yourself.
>=20
> 2. Pay someone to do it for you.
>=20
> Ha, really? Last time even after offering money no one replied.

Only sai nothing ELSE works, not that these did.

>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 3:30 AM, Dmitriy Remselgin <rems...@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
> coi rodo
>=20
> It's my first post here, but I'm not a complete nintadni, and I'd like to=
 take part in improving and popularizing lojban.
>=20
> There are many things that may be very useful for me or everyone who is i=
nterested in lojban. We'd love to read about current state of affairs, news=
, proposals; we want to access all lojban-related programs; we want to add =
new lujvo to the jbovlaste; we want the information to be organized and eas=
ily accessible.
>=20
> And what do we have instead? The great mess. I do not want to offend anyo=
ne, but the main web-site is ugly and unhandy. Someone will say that it doe=
s not matter, but it does! The usability must be one the primary concerns i=
n any enterprise. Just look at the interface of jbovalste from the very fir=
st page http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/newaccount.html to the page where we ad=
d new words with its loooong and booooring instructions. The parser is brok=
en (try "ti nanca li xa" or any other phrase with "li"). Mailing lists as t=
he main way of communication are great if you do not want to find some part=
icular info, because in this case the task becomes unbearable. And this lis=
t is in no way complete.
>=20
> The lojban project is stagnated. And we must start its reanimation with r=
eanimation of its interface. There's a plenty of work to do. We should star=
t the "Usability Project" as soon as possible. To accomplish it, we need 1)=
 experienced lojbanists who can organize and filter information, 2) program=
mers and designers who can create handy and featured software and a web-sit=
e.
>=20
> mi'e remselgin
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
 "lojban" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an=
 email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>=20
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
 "lojban" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an=
 email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--Apple-Mail-9DACF6B0-D0F2-419B-A932-CE159FF2C44F
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div><br><br>Sent from my iPad=
</div><div><br>On Aug 21, 2013, at 6:07, la arxokuna &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><b=
r></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>=
On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:12:07 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:<blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>There are exactly=
 two ways to get something done in the Lojban community:<br><br></div>1. Do=
 it yourself.<br><br></div>2. Pay someone to do it for you.<br></div></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div>Ha, really? Last time even after offering money =
no one replied.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Only sai =
nothing ELSE works, not that these did.</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
 1ex;"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 3:30 AM, Dmitriy Remselgin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"2H_5k5cXXz=
gJ">rems...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x">
<div dir=3D"ltr">coi rodo<br><br>It's my first post here, but I'm not a com=
plete nintadni, and I'd like to take part in improving and popularizing loj=
ban.<br><br>There are many things that may be very useful for me or everyon=
e who is interested in lojban. We'd love to read about current state of aff=
airs, news, proposals; we want to access all lojban-related programs; we wa=
nt to add new lujvo to the jbovlaste; we want the information to be <b>orga=
nized and easily accessible</b>.<br>
<br>And what do we have instead? The great <b>mess</b>. I do not want to of=
fend anyone, but the main web-site is ugly and unhandy. Someone will say th=
at it does not matter, but it does! The usability must be one the primary c=
oncerns in any enterprise. Just look at the interface of jbovalste from the=
 very first page <a href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/newaccount.html" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/<wbr>newaccount.html</a> to the=
 page where we add new words with its loooong and booooring instructions. T=
he parser is broken (try "ti nanca li xa" or any other phrase with "li"). M=
ailing lists as the main way of communication are great if you do not want =
to find some particular info, because in this case the task becomes unbeara=
ble. And this list is in no way complete.<br>
<br>The lojban project is stagnated. And we must start its reanimation with=
 reanimation of its <b>interface</b>. There's a plenty of work to do. We sh=
ould start the "Usability Project" as soon as possible. To accomplish it, w=
e need 1) experienced lojbanists who can organize and filter information, 2=
) programmers and designers who can create handy and featured software and =
a web-site.<br>
<br>mi'e remselgin<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></span></div><sp=
an><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"=
2H_5k5cXXzgJ">lojban+un...@<wbr>googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_bla=
nk" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"2H_5k5cXXzgJ">loj...@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<wbr>group/lojban</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/<wbr>groups/opt_out</a>.<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu'o mi'e=
 .aionys.<br><br>.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi pat=
fu do zo'o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>

</div>
</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsub=
scribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http:=
//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br>
</div></blockquote></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http:=
//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />

--Apple-Mail-9DACF6B0-D0F2-419B-A932-CE159FF2C44F--