Received: from mail-vc0-f183.google.com ([209.85.220.183]:48511) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VGnQa-0000I8-K8 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 03:01:49 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f183.google.com with SMTP id m17sf1374327vca.20 for ; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 03:01:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=r71JomoA5SOMfWf7dDIc3ZuP7tvqwlA8fE1usZt6ec4=; b=mljtb6ZFC8z1zDvmxb4Z8tTwokhUbHa4pIvEuEvh7lGxKZQlCGbLNwtMc0XIu16gy+ 8VVbd6lh6lp7vLtjbYFaCOaratDViLR1LntSZ1y9mbxcxmMLQWO5Xo5tOhyzKR8E4Psk QjHhO9XSkMBCEg1IYpgw0xt/TH17xXO3XNdbuX8Wwust1h7MjQxxBA+GAZl56pD9xcum p0DJ3rzMgRJR1BtjmzAQQlBtraolBqbUZpdamW5omTMmgFTpKfMstgiEQuLsNpJhgzOW uDRy8SOPC+OR4IEIMwO5GQ3VacF9HQbCheMzf7r4l2G2ieQfPSIq1LPGTBEhqomtRJNE 0WKg== X-Received: by 10.50.239.165 with SMTP id vt5mr325151igc.4.1378202494258; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 03:01:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.20.103 with SMTP id m7ls184891ige.43.gmail; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 03:01:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.241.40 with SMTP id wf8mr8746114pac.31.1378202493788; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 03:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stodi.digitalkingdom.org (mail.digitalkingdom.org. [173.13.139.236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ax8si1426856pbd.0.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Sep 2013 03:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.236; Received: from rlpowell by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VGnQS-0000I1-LC for lojban@googlegroups.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 03:01:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 03:01:32 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Lojban: it's not for babies. Message-ID: <20130903100132.GF26755@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20130902084209.GA17067@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> <20130903094348.GE26755@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / As of this week, sometimes. Up until then, not really, no; they'd simply elide one letter or the other; {dirba} -> "DIH-ba", "fart" -> "faht", "aunt" -> "aht". There are a lot more English words where that works without confusion, and a *LOT* more English words that simply don't have any significant consonant clusters. They've been saying "banana" (or at least "nana") for ages, for example. This was my point: given the choice between a language with lots of words they can see, and one with lots they can't, they pick the former. -Robin On Tue, Sep 03, 2013 at 03:50:09AM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > Can they do clusters /at all/? > > > Also, can they say "pigeon"? I ask because if they can say "pigeon", then > {cidja} shouldn't be too far down the road from pronounceable, I expect. > > > On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Robin Lee Powell < > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 03, 2013 at 03:36:48AM -0600, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Robin Lee Powell < > > > rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > > > > > > > Pro-tip: there is not a toddler in the world that can emit the > > > > difference between {cidja} and {citka}. > > > > > > > > > > This is actually kind of surprising to me, because "she-ja" and > > > "sheet-ka(AAAAAHHHHNNNNN!!!)" seem very different insofar as the > > > medial cluster. > > > > If they could emit medial clusters, we wouldn't be having this > > discussion. > > > > -Robin > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "lojban" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- http://intelligence.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i danfu lu na go'i li'u .e lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni li'u -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.