Received: from mail-vc0-f187.google.com ([209.85.220.187]:44239) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VH2ru-00049x-Ab for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 19:31:03 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f187.google.com with SMTP id id13sf1660218vcb.24 for ; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 19:30:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=RVO8PxhLuypfvDcHLHQCx/rtQcSx3ifGGPGXjZwPlHg=; b=oIadCaZjeoqkXn2ah8HHLH1fEXl3/BUTjUOSvabXF9/ycyRs76AQT/pX/tPO2NJQaO evWeBm3YZitwlNvMs9YuCXFmjqD2RSXDQ9Cq47hECyT60dKAfuvqabc/v5xH+vtsvU6o UU3A1PYf4JpBvBy/YmAy/aTQBTLk6BX9k+LRDET+uEoI/vsnnOfkBWtT5yZBCfrIGK9t LePwT8KAA3asQgzKpdcQEzVUjx2oDf6DWUOZVl+DmLfXYY8WkXTJVeWZzlapCIiJAXv7 ssCzmnTMidCpwDv8z7ImedeH8/sOPJwTNJWTkEPF46pWtxBGnzsF9xO3VVqNNDJVFNl+ xMOQ== X-Received: by 10.49.133.201 with SMTP id pe9mr13841qeb.6.1378261847919; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 19:30:47 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.96.9 with SMTP id do9ls2774785qeb.80.gmail; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 19:30:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.74.72 with SMTP id t8mr783049qaj.4.1378261847355; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 19:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pi.meson.org (pi.meson.org. [96.56.207.26]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id t6si2564985qcj.3.1969.12.31.16.00.00; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 19:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 96.56.207.26 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of mark@kli.org) client-ip=96.56.207.26; Received: from nagas.meson.org (unknown [192.168.2.101]) by pi.meson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0A01100179 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2013 22:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <52269B56.3060603@kli.org> Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 22:30:46 -0400 From: "Mark E. Shoulson" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130625 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Lojban: it's not for babies. References: <522642B1.7010404@lojban.org> <3834605.6NoRKQFMZ5@caracal> In-Reply-To: <3834605.6NoRKQFMZ5@caracal> X-Original-Sender: mark@kli.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 96.56.207.26 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of mark@kli.org) smtp.mail=mark@kli.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / On 09/03/2013 06:16 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Tuesday, September 03, 2013 18:02:18 MorphemeAddict wrote: >> I have never before heard that speech strings end in a glottal stop, >> especially for English or Lojban. The denpa pu is not always a glottal >> stop. It can be just absence of sound. No elision required. > In some Semitic languages speech strings do end in a glottal stop, though= when > Adon Olam was written it was silent: lines ending in "ra'" rhyme > indiscriminately with lines ending in "rah". In Lojban, though, there's n= o > need to pronounce a glottal stop at the end of a sentence. > In classical Hebrew phonology, both ALEPH and HEH are silent at the ends=20 of words. This may not have been the case in antiquity, of course, but=20 it's very possible. I recall in the Dead Sea Scrolls seeing the word=20 =D7=9B=D7=99, /ki/, KAF-YOD in modern spelling, spelled =D7=9B=D7=99=D7=90 = KAF-YOD-ALEPH. And=20 there are words like =D7=92=D7=99 /gaj/ which I think is found in old MSS o= f the=20 Bible sometimes as GIMEL-YOD and sometimes GIMEL-YOD-ALEPH. So there's=20 some evidence that ALEPH was silent at the ends of words a while back as=20 well--though of course not necessarily always. ~mark --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.