Received: from mail-qc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:49216) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VLVKO-0006nt-Py for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:42:56 -0700 Received: by mail-qc0-f189.google.com with SMTP id l13sf1286802qcy.6 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:42:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=/ZtU9aDao+4lvLAK687XoY1MwxqGZ50wT8PPjUyyXNI=; b=uNemDwPfXnaE8uQoWExd/Fd6QmH4VjmkE2+4X5VtF0HjSh//Hx8Dw8buDbbCIE0miO /muRm2+wkywWGep9W/eVa8h+8wTA+p4iFKvNGhr7jeX6Vi4JgXbVoqgdaFUUCZXjih6a WimbbzJ/14ZG9ASfPizViAesiMBavycmu411Wgq3N5U+D5AVRdfjGmNSojP4YJId6+u5 NPwdbhnliwSjk1dahKDt+TamT5jnfHqNxaZ8Ef+a/SjFztXqnFqDVXkWiRTAauXwAlLL 7IXIQEEMO0ng8sLnhGPuv8CUoa6XE9XTbBGlENS42HGUlvdsmJSGeWs3kav1BQRQStbg vhXw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=/ZtU9aDao+4lvLAK687XoY1MwxqGZ50wT8PPjUyyXNI=; b=GF4XdVFp58D/k5V/yvCHUO9nAXSOF03FaDzxUg1s7CFBqntIL4CthT5UkCAE/mt3se zaVe12uYKdnIBkiPY8D/kyLnPlDBBBY1WxoWA9V2ITY9CNu0RW82yK00iWfftDT01P1V 0s30MVtlKu9CGGMQT+0pymyM86JyT71MOMNvHTY46q4UVoFaU4lXpzz+18b0YH6CMxFO xXDPs3Ay4A+PKRptDC/rXoyuw/DfVSarb1a8u/AWH26S/uoz+b4MXmXUaPtJdiGZN65n 5ZgRA234kZzA/6KyHAti3UQtKEK0IAEVGw0gBTbMmIQfiFn5MWGyUrf6qtz/j+dahgs4 /E/A== X-Received: by 10.49.13.40 with SMTP id e8mr1329889qec.1.1379324558419; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:42:38 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.94.8 with SMTP id cy8ls2075779qeb.18.gmail; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:42:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.72.65 with SMTP id b1mr28675qev.21.1379324557964; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:42:37 -0700 (PDT) From: la arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com Cc: jbovlaste@lojban.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20130915194202.23b2c9f5@aol.com> Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5Blojban=5D_Changing_the_English_definition_of_=93f?= =?windows-1252?Q?i=27i=94_on_jbovlaste=2E?= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4177_22598618.1379324557614" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_4177_22598618.1379324557614 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Monday, September 16, 2013 4:08:52 AM UTC+4, gejyspa wrote: > > I don't actually use "You're welcome" and "You are welcome"=20 > interchangeably, despite the fact that one is, logically speaking, only a= =20 > contraction of the other. I would never use the latter as a response to= =20 > "Thank you" Nonetheless, I do agree that the proposed changes are=20 > appropriate, and should be made. > > (But this really belongs on the jbovlaste gorup, not the main) > i ma tcidu lo jbovlaste girzu notci vau paunai i ku'i la'aru'e srana si'a lo bypyfyky girzu =20 > > --gejyspa > > > > On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Wuzzy >wrot= e: > >> I think the definition of =93fi'i=94 on jbovlaste is just wrong. >> >> The current definition is: >> > vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; you are welcome/ make yourself >> > at home. >> This definition contradicts itself, since =93You=92re welcome!=94/=93You= are >> welcome!=94 is a response to =93Thank you=94, and is NOT used to indicat= e >> hospitality. A simple =93Welcome!=94 is used for that instead. According= to >> the CLL , clearly the =93Welcome!=94 >> meaning is actually meant by =93fi'i=94 and not the =93You=92re welcome!= =94 >> meaning. But there are some Lojbanists that seem to confuse that. Part >> of the confusion may be caused by this definition on jbovlaste. >> >> I propose the following new definition: >> > vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; =93Welcome! / Make yourself at >> > home. >> >> I propose to add the following notes for extra clarity: >> > {fi'i} does not mean =93You=92re welcome=94. For =93You=92re welcome!= =94 (as a >> > response to =93Thank you!=94/{ki'e}), use {je'e} instead. >> Probably a link to the relevant part of the CLL >> could be added as well (if that >> haven=92t already happened). >> >> Normally, I make changes to jbovlaste directly, but I make an exception >> for cmavo and gismu, because messing with their definitions is serious >> business. I want to hear your opinions first. >> >> -- >> Wuzzy >> XMPP: Wuz...@jabber.ccc.de >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n=20 >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_4177_22598618.1379324557614 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Monday, September 16, 2013 4:08:52 AM UTC+4, ge= jyspa wrote:
&= nbsp; I don't actually use "You're welcome" and "You are welcome" interchan= geably, despite the fact that one is, logically speaking, only a contractio= n of the other.  I would never use the latter as a response to "Thank = you" Nonetheless, I do agree  that the proposed changes are appropriat= e, and should be made.

  (But this really belongs on the jbovlaste gorup, not = the main)

i ma tcidu lo jbovlas= te girzu notci vau paunai
i ku'i la'aru'e srana si'a lo bypyfyky = girzu
 

          --gej= yspa



On S= un, Sep 15, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Wuzzy <alm...@aol.c= om> wrote:
I think the definition of =93fi'i=94 on jbov= laste is just wrong.

The current definition is:
> vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; you are welcome/ make yourself<= br> > at home.
This definition contradicts itself, since =93You=92re welcome!=94/=93You ar= e
welcome!=94 is a response to =93Thank you=94, and is NOT used to indicate hospitality. A simple =93Welcome!=94 is used for that instead. According to=
the CLL <h= ttp://dag.github.io/cll/13/14/>, clearly the =93Welcome!=94
meaning is actually meant by =93fi'i=94 and not the =93You=92re welcome!=94=
meaning.  But there are some Lojbanists that seem to confuse that. Par= t
of the confusion may be caused by this definition on jbovlaste.

I propose the following new definition:
> vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; =93Welcome! / Make yourself at<= br> > home.

I propose to add the following notes for extra clarity:
> {fi'i} does not mean =93You=92re welcome=94. For =93You=92re welcome!= =94 (as a
> response to =93Thank you!=94/{ki'e}), use {je'e} instead.
Probably a link to the relevant part of the CLL
<http://da= g.github.io/cll/13/14/> could be added as well (if that
haven=92t already happened).

Normally, I make changes to jbovlaste directly, but I make an exception
for cmavo and gismu, because messing with their definitions is serious
business. I want to hear your opinions first.

--
Wuzzy
XMPP: Wuz...@jabber.ccc.de

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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