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Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2013 08:01:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] A new member has some questions
To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" <lojban@googlegroups.com>
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 Content preview:  As a long-time, and generally outside, observer of Lojban,
    I encourage you to get into the language more fully. The basics are easy
   and satisfying, the details perhaps less so. But to your questions. Officially,
    Lojban is not in a state of flux. It is the language of CLL with a few long-established
    corrections. It will remain that until the completion of the mythical baseline,
    after which suggestions for change will be entertained. To be sure, the committee
    for establishing the baseline does not appear to have met for many years,
    has not recently (if ever) released a report or made a survey, and, indeed,
    may not be constituted at the moment. In its absence -- and before it was
    constituted, indeed, since the moment of creation of Lojban -- people have
    been suggesting changes, "improvements", and using these non-standard forms
    freely, with or without the cooperation or understanding of other Lojbanists.
    Some of these innovations have been generally, sometimes even quasi-officially,
    accepted. Along with CLL, these latter few are worth knowing. One such is
    clearly dot-side, the requirement that every name be completely surrounded
    by pauses to distinguish it from other structures which may have the same
    form -- and to remove some technical phonetic restrictions on names in CLL.
    On the other hand, the reduction in the number of connectives and the collapse
    of the class of cmevla to the class of brivla are not established even though,
    for the second, the difference is essentially terminological and, for the
    first, is a desirable goal for both simplification and logical clarity. The
    various ways of doing stress (only in names, of course, since stress is otherwise
    fixed) are mainly matters of personal aesthetics. Just know the possibilities
    and act accordingly. I don't think it will ever be a Lojban style to use
   capital letters purely to indicate proper nouns or the like; this is adequately
    handled phonologically and syntactically. These are all pretty much details,
    to be worried about -- if at all -- after you have come [...] 
 
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---334495122-1138783588-1380726106=:30295
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As a long-time, and generally outside, observer of Lojban, I encourage you =
to get into the language more fully. =A0The basics are easy and satisfying,=
 the details perhaps less so. =A0
But to your questions. =A0Officially, Lojban is not in a state of flux. =A0=
It is the language of CLL with a few long-established corrections. =A0It wi=
ll remain that until the completion of the mythical baseline, after which s=
uggestions for change will be entertained. =A0To be sure, the committee for=
 establishing the baseline does not appear to have met for many years, has =
not recently (if ever) released a report or made a survey, and, indeed, may=
 not be constituted at the moment. =A0In its absence -- and before it was c=
onstituted, indeed, since the moment of creation of Lojban -- people have b=
een suggesting changes, "improvements", and using these non-standard forms =
freely, with or without the cooperation or understanding of other Lojbanist=
s. =A0Some of these innovations have been generally, sometimes even quasi-o=
fficially, accepted. =A0Along with CLL, these latter few are worth knowing.
One such is clearly dot-side, the requirement that every name be completely=
 surrounded by pauses to distinguish it from other structures which may hav=
e the same form -- and to remove some technical phonetic restrictions on na=
mes in CLL.
On the other hand, the reduction in the number of connectives and the colla=
pse of the class of cmevla to the class of brivla are not established even =
though, for the second, the difference is essentially terminological and, f=
or the first, is a desirable goal for both simplification and logical clari=
ty. =A0
The various ways of doing stress (only in names, of course, since stress is=
 otherwise fixed) are mainly matters of personal aesthetics. =A0Just know t=
he possibilities and act accordingly. =A0I don't think it will ever be a Lo=
jban style to use capital letters purely to indicate proper nouns or the li=
ke; this is adequately handled phonologically and syntactically.
These are all pretty much details, to be worried about -- if at all -- afte=
r you have come to some degree of proficiency with basics, like getting ato=
mic structures right and moving pieces around with ease.


________________________________
 From: Lormoral King <ucauricuhum@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 8:15 AM
Subject: [lojban] A new member has some questions
=20


Hello everyone,

this is my first mail to this list. I recently found out about Lojban and h=
ave been spending a lot of time reading about it. When learning languages, =
I prefer to first get a very broad overview before focusing on the details.=
 Once I am more familiar with the big picture I can better tell where all t=
he little things I learn go in the grand scheme of things. So, I have been =
reading as much as I could fine online; mostly tiki pages and some old mail=
ing list conversations, but I also saw some comments on the facebook group =
that interested me. I understand the language is currently in a flux, thoug=
h I cannot quite tell what the officials' stance on anything is. I have see=
n talk of certain proposed changes, and I'd be interested to know what I sh=
ould think of them and also what their status is, specifically the 'dotside=
' reform, the thing about connectives getting reduced (I hope you know what=
 I mean), and what I think was called 'cmevla as a class of brivla'
 (I wasn't really able to follow the discussions). Also, I saw some people =
using different accent marks sometimes, Does this mean I can capitalize wor=
ds, since capital letters were previously used for stress marking purposes?
I hope I didn't ask too many questions!

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 mi'e Ucauricu'um (I hope I said that right)
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

---334495122-1138783588-1380726106=:30295
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>As a long-=
time, and generally outside, observer of Lojban, I encourage you to get int=
o the language more fully. &nbsp;The basics are easy and satisfying, the de=
tails perhaps less so. &nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0)=
; font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif=
; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>But to your que=
stions. &nbsp;Officially, Lojban is not in a state of flux. &nbsp;It is the=
 language of CLL with a few long-established corrections. &nbsp;It will rem=
ain that until the completion of the mythical baseline, after which suggest=
ions for change will be entertained. &nbsp;To be sure, the committee for es=
tablishing the baseline does not appear to have met for many years, has not=
 re</span><span style=3D"background-color: transparent;">cently (if ever)
 released a report or made a survey, and, indeed, may not be constituted at=
 the moment. &nbsp;In its absence -- and before it was constituted, indeed,=
 since the moment of creation of Lojban -- people have been suggesting chan=
ges, "improvements", and using these non-standard forms freely, with or wit=
hout the cooperation or understanding of other Lojbanists. &nbsp;Some of th=
ese innovations have been generally, sometimes even quasi-officially, accep=
ted. &nbsp;Along with CLL, these latter few are worth knowing.</span></div>=
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new=
 roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-styl=
e: normal;"><span style=3D"background-color: transparent;">One such is clea=
rly dot-side, the requirement that every name be completely surrounded by p=
auses to distinguish it from other structures which may have the same form =
-- and to remove some technical phonetic restrictions on names in
 CLL.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-=
family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: tran=
sparent; font-style: normal;"><span style=3D"background-color: transparent;=
">On the other hand, the reduction in the number of connectives and the col=
lapse of the class of cmevla to the class of brivla are not established eve=
n though, for the second, the difference is essentially terminological and,=
 for the first, is a desirable goal for both simplification and logical cla=
rity. &nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px=
; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-colo=
r: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style=3D"background-color: trans=
parent;">The various ways of doing stress (only in names, of course, since =
stress is otherwise fixed) are mainly matters of personal aesthetics. &nbsp=
;Just know the possibilities and act accordingly. &nbsp;I don't think it
 will ever be a Lojban style to use capital letters purely to indicate prop=
er nouns or the like; this is adequately handled phonologically and syntact=
ically.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; fon=
t-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: tr=
ansparent; font-style: normal;"><span style=3D"background-color: transparen=
t;">These are all pretty much details, to be worried about -- if at all -- =
after you have come to some degree of proficiency with basics, like getting=
 atomic structures right and moving pieces around with ease.</span></div><d=
iv><br></div>  <div style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', ti=
mes, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: 'times new roman'=
, 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=
=3D"1">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bol=
d;">From:</span></b> Lormoral King &lt;ucauricuhum@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><sp=
an
 style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com <br> <=
b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 2,=
 2013 8:15 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>=
 [lojban] A new member has some questions<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"=
y_msg_container"><br>
<div id=3D"yiv797855086"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hello everyone,<div><br></div><di=
v>this is my first mail to this list. I recently found out about Lojban and=
 have been spending a lot of time reading about it. When learning languages=
, I prefer to first get a very broad overview before focusing on the detail=
s. Once I am more familiar with the big picture I can better tell where all=
 the little things I learn go in the grand scheme of things. So, I have bee=
n reading as much as I could fine online; mostly tiki pages and some old ma=
iling list conversations, but I also saw some comments on the facebook grou=
p that interested me. I understand the language is currently in a flux, tho=
ugh I cannot quite tell what the officials' stance on anything is. I have s=
een talk of certain proposed changes, and I'd be interested to know what I =
should think of them and also what their status is, specifically the 'dotsi=
de' reform, the thing about connectives getting reduced (I hope you know
 what I mean), and what I think was called 'cmevla as a class of brivla' (I=
 wasn't really able to follow the discussions). Also, I saw some people usi=
ng different accent marks sometimes, Does this mean I can capitalize words,=
 since capital letters were previously used for stress marking purposes?</d=
iv>
<div>I hope I didn't ask too many questions!</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mi'e Ucauricu'um (I hope I said that right)</div></d=
iv>


-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br>
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br>
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.<br>
For more options, visit <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https=
://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_o=
ut</a>.<br>
</div><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
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mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
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//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
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">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />

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