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From: Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Taxonomy and lojban
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 14:04:33 -0400
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 Content preview:  On Wednesday, October 09, 2013 09:11:23 jongausib wrote: >
    - Choose a genus > - genus Cordyline is a genus of plants, so {spati} would
    serve as a > stage-3 topic prefix. > - To shorten the word I use the short
    rafsi variant if possible, so we > get {sparkordiline}: *s1 is a tī/palm
    lily (genus Cordyline) of > species/cultivar s2* > - In stage-3 fu'ivla definition
    I give the variables name after their > gismu-based prefix, so here I use
    s (={spati}) instead of x. Maybe I > should have used both... > - *Gloss
   word 1*: *palm lily ; *in sense:* plant (genus Cordyline)*, > *Gloss word
   2*: *tī ; *in sense:* plant (genus Cordyline)* > - Note that I fill 'in sense'-data.
    Sometimes you just don't know if > the natlang counterparts got some any
   other sense (like in the case of > Prunella), and anyhow it looks nice to
   always specify the gismu-base > (here 'plant (genus Cordyline)'). > - some
    plants of Cordyline are also trees, so to denote those species > specifically
    you could also add the word {ricrkordiline}. Definition: > *t1is a tī/palm
    lily (genus Cordyline) of species/cultivar t 2* > > *6) Derivates* > > Next
    step is to see if Cordyline plants are useful for something. Not what > I
    can see on wikipedia. But in case you find parts of a plant/animal/object
    > useful, invent fu'ivlas for these as well, derived from the first word.
    > > For example: vanilla orchid (genus Vanilla) = {sparvanila} (note that
    you > can't use {xrula} here since that is just an pretty irrelevant part
    of the > plant), vanilla pod = {rutrvanila}, vanilla seed = {tsirvanila},
    vanilla > extract = {runtrvanila}, vanilla sugar = {satrvanila}, vanilla
   sauce = > {sansrvanila}. Compare that with the stage-4 fu'ivla {varnila} -
    what does > that mean? > > This is also an argument why the project to systematically
    go through all > genera is important: to generate a lot of new useful words,
    not least for > culinary purposes;) [...] 
 
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On Wednesday, October 09, 2013 09:11:23 jongausib wrote:
>    - Choose a genus
>    - genus Cordyline is a genus of plants, so {spati} would serve as a
>    stage-3 topic prefix.
>    - To shorten the word I use the short rafsi variant if possible, so we
>    get {sparkordiline}: *s1 is a t=C4=AB/palm lily (genus Cordyline) of
>    species/cultivar s2*
>    - In stage-3 fu'ivla definition I give the variables name after their
>    gismu-based prefix, so here I use s (=3D{spati}) instead of x. Maybe I
> should have used both...
>    - *Gloss word 1*: *palm lily ; *in sense:* plant (genus Cordyline)*,
> *Gloss word 2*: *t=C4=AB ; *in sense:* plant (genus Cordyline)*
>    - Note that I fill  'in sense'-data. Sometimes you just don't know if
>    the natlang counterparts got some any other sense (like in the case of
>    Prunella), and anyhow it looks nice to always specify the gismu-base
> (here 'plant (genus Cordyline)').
>    - some plants of Cordyline are also trees, so to denote those species
>    specifically you could also add the word {ricrkordiline}. Definition:
> *t1is a t=C4=AB/palm lily (genus Cordyline) of species/cultivar t 2*
>=20
> *6) Derivates*
>=20
> Next step is to see if Cordyline plants are useful for something. Not wha=
t
> I can see on wikipedia. But in case you find parts of a plant/animal/obje=
ct
> useful, invent fu'ivlas for these as well, derived from the first word.
>=20
> For example: vanilla orchid (genus Vanilla) =3D {sparvanila}  (note that =
you
> can't use {xrula} here since that is just an pretty irrelevant part of th=
e
> plant), vanilla pod =3D {rutrvanila}, vanilla seed =3D {tsirvanila}, vani=
lla
> extract =3D {runtrvanila}, vanilla sugar =3D {satrvanila}, vanilla sauce =
=3D
> {sansrvanila}. Compare that with the stage-4 fu'ivla {varnila} - what doe=
s
> that mean?
>=20
> This is also an argument why the project to systematically go through all
> genera is important: to generate a lot of new useful words, not least for
> culinary purposes;)

You can't use "spa" as the rafsi in a type-3 fu'ivla to name a plant. The=
=20
result, if it is a valid fu'ivla, is a type-4 fu'ivla. Similarly for "tsi".=
 If=20
a gismu has no CVC rafsi, you  have to use the four-letter rafsi.

Conversely, if you attempt to make a type-4 fu'ivla and it consists of a ra=
fsi=20
ending in a consonant, the appropriate interfix, and a part beginning with =
a=20
consonant, then it is a type-3 fu'ivla and has to be redone. There was an=
=20
entry "mernta" for mint, but that means an American ta. The correct words a=
re=20
"spatrmenta" and "diosmo" (the latter, from Greek, cannot be entered in=20
jbovlaste because of a bug in vlatai).

Pierre
--=20
Don't buy a French car in Holland. It may be a citroen.

--=20
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