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[85.225.38.152]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id vx8sm27084877lbb.8.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Oct 2013 11:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [lojban] Taxonomy and lojban References: <2611771.s5gv5rhuP9@caracal> From: Sebastian X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10A523) In-Reply-To: <2611771.s5gv5rhuP9@caracal> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 20:55:29 +0200 To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-Original-Sender: so.cool.ogi@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of so.cool.ogi@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d as permitted sender) smtp.mail=so.cool.ogi@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4EF67C3E-C889-4B5F-8C67-05C3F9F1D3F6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Skickat från min iPhone 9 okt 2013 kl. 20:04 skrev Pierre Abbat : > On Wednesday, October 09, 2013 09:11:23 jongausib wrote: >> - Choose a genus >> - genus Cordyline is a genus of plants, so {spati} would serve as a >> stage-3 topic prefix. >> - To shorten the word I use the short rafsi variant if possible, so we >> get {sparkordiline}: *s1 is a tī/palm lily (genus Cordyline) of >> species/cultivar s2* >> - In stage-3 fu'ivla definition I give the variables name after their >> gismu-based prefix, so here I use s (={spati}) instead of x. Maybe I >> should have used both... >> - *Gloss word 1*: *palm lily ; *in sense:* plant (genus Cordyline)*, >> *Gloss word 2*: *tī ; *in sense:* plant (genus Cordyline)* >> - Note that I fill 'in sense'-data. Sometimes you just don't know if >> the natlang counterparts got some any other sense (like in the case of >> Prunella), and anyhow it looks nice to always specify the gismu-base >> (here 'plant (genus Cordyline)'). >> - some plants of Cordyline are also trees, so to denote those species >> specifically you could also add the word {ricrkordiline}. Definition: >> *t1is a tī/palm lily (genus Cordyline) of species/cultivar t 2* >> >> *6) Derivates* >> >> Next step is to see if Cordyline plants are useful for something. Not what >> I can see on wikipedia. But in case you find parts of a plant/animal/object >> useful, invent fu'ivlas for these as well, derived from the first word. >> >> For example: vanilla orchid (genus Vanilla) = {sparvanila} (note that you >> can't use {xrula} here since that is just an pretty irrelevant part of the >> plant), vanilla pod = {rutrvanila}, vanilla seed = {tsirvanila}, vanilla >> extract = {runtrvanila}, vanilla sugar = {satrvanila}, vanilla sauce = >> {sansrvanila}. Compare that with the stage-4 fu'ivla {varnila} - what does >> that mean? >> >> This is also an argument why the project to systematically go through all >> genera is important: to generate a lot of new useful words, not least for >> culinary purposes;) > > You can't use "spa" as the rafsi in a type-3 fu'ivla to name a plant. The > result, if it [...] Content analysis details: (0.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (so.cool.ogi[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid --Apple-Mail-4EF67C3E-C889-4B5F-8C67-05C3F9F1D3F6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Skickat fr=C3=A5n min iPhone 9 okt 2013 kl. 20:04 skrev Pierre Abbat : > On Wednesday, October 09, 2013 09:11:23 jongausib wrote: >> - Choose a genus >> - genus Cordyline is a genus of plants, so {spati} would serve as a >> stage-3 topic prefix. >> - To shorten the word I use the short rafsi variant if possible, so we >> get {sparkordiline}: *s1 is a t=C4=AB/palm lily (genus Cordyline) of >> species/cultivar s2* >> - In stage-3 fu'ivla definition I give the variables name after their >> gismu-based prefix, so here I use s (=3D{spati}) instead of x. Maybe I >> should have used both... >> - *Gloss word 1*: *palm lily ; *in sense:* plant (genus Cordyline)*, >> *Gloss word 2*: *t=C4=AB ; *in sense:* plant (genus Cordyline)* >> - Note that I fill 'in sense'-data. Sometimes you just don't know if >> the natlang counterparts got some any other sense (like in the case of >> Prunella), and anyhow it looks nice to always specify the gismu-base >> (here 'plant (genus Cordyline)'). >> - some plants of Cordyline are also trees, so to denote those species >> specifically you could also add the word {ricrkordiline}. Definition: >> *t1is a t=C4=AB/palm lily (genus Cordyline) of species/cultivar t 2* >>=20 >> *6) Derivates* >>=20 >> Next step is to see if Cordyline plants are useful for something. Not wh= at >> I can see on wikipedia. But in case you find parts of a plant/animal/obj= ect >> useful, invent fu'ivlas for these as well, derived from the first word. >>=20 >> For example: vanilla orchid (genus Vanilla) =3D {sparvanila} (note that= you >> can't use {xrula} here since that is just an pretty irrelevant part of t= he >> plant), vanilla pod =3D {rutrvanila}, vanilla seed =3D {tsirvanila}, van= illa >> extract =3D {runtrvanila}, vanilla sugar =3D {satrvanila}, vanilla sauce= =3D >> {sansrvanila}. Compare that with the stage-4 fu'ivla {varnila} - what do= es >> that mean? >>=20 >> This is also an argument why the project to systematically go through al= l >> genera is important: to generate a lot of new useful words, not least fo= r >> culinary purposes;) >=20 > You can't use "spa" as the rafsi in a type-3 fu'ivla to name a plant. The= =20 > result, if it is a valid fu'ivla, is a type-4 fu'ivla. Similarly for "tsi= ". If=20 > a gismu has no CVC rafsi, you have to use the four-letter rafsi. Crap! I forgot that restriction. I have used this construction a lot. Isn't= it possible to regard words like {sparvanila} as a "stage-3 looking-type o= f stage-4" or something? Or, is there any way you can rename valsi in jbovlaste, so you don't have t= o do completely new entries? mu'omi'e seb >=20 > Conversely, if you attempt to make a type-4 fu'ivla and it consists of a = rafsi=20 > ending in a consonant, the appropriate interfix, and a part beginning wit= h a=20 > consonant, then it is a type-3 fu'ivla and has to be redone. There was an= =20 > entry "mernta" for mint, but that means an American ta. The correct words= are=20 > "spatrmenta" and "diosmo" (the latter, from Greek, cannot be entered in= =20 > jbovlaste because of a bug in vlatai). >=20 > Pierre > --=20 > Don't buy a French car in Holland. It may be a citroen. >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --Apple-Mail-4EF67C3E-C889-4B5F-8C67-05C3F9F1D3F6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Skickat fr=C3=A5n min iPho= ne

9 okt 2013 kl. 20:04 skrev Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>:

On Wednesday, October 09, 2013 09:11:23 jongausib = wrote:
  - Choose a ge= nus
  - g= enus Cordyline is a genus of plants, so {spati} would serve as a
=
  stage-3 topic pre= fix.
  - = To shorten the word I use the short rafsi variant if possible, so we=
  get {sparkord= iline}: *s1 is a t=C4=AB/palm lily (genus Cordyline) of
  species/cultivar s2*
  - In stage-3= fu'ivla definition I give the variables name after their
  gismu-based prefix, so h= ere I use s (=3D{spati}) instead of x. Maybe I
should have used both...
=
  - *Gloss word 1*: *palm lily ;= *in sense:* plant (genus Cordyline)*,
*Gloss word 2*: *t=C4=AB ; *in sense:* plant (genus Cord= yline)*
  = ;- Note that I fill  'in sense'-data. Sometimes you just don't know if=
  the na= tlang counterparts got some any other sense (like in the case of
=
  Prunella), and an= yhow it looks nice to always specify the gismu-base
=
(here 'plant (genus Cordyline)').
  - some plants of= Cordyline are also trees, so to denote those species
  specifically you could also = add the word {ricrkordiline}. Definition:
*t1is a t=C4=AB/palm lily (genus Cordyline) of specie= s/cultivar t 2*

*6) Derivates*

Next step is to see if Cordyline plants are use= ful for something. Not what
I can see on wikipedia. But in case you find parts of a plant/anima= l/object
useful, inv= ent fu'ivlas for these as well, derived from the first word.

For example: vanilla orchid (genus Vanilla) =3D {spar= vanila}  (note that you
can't use {xrula} here since that is just an pretty irrelevant par= t of the
plant), van= illa pod =3D {rutrvanila}, vanilla seed =3D {tsirvanila}, vanilla
extract =3D {runtrvanila}, va= nilla sugar =3D {satrvanila}, vanilla sauce =3D
{sansrvanila}. Compare that with the stage-4 fu= 'ivla {varnila} - what does
that mean?
<= /span>
This is also an argu= ment why the project to systematically go through all
genera is important: to generate a lot of= new useful words, not least for
culinary purposes;)

You can't use "spa" as the rafsi in a type-3 fu'ivla to name a plant. T= he
result, if it is a valid fu'ivla, is a type-4 fu'ivla. = Similarly for "tsi". If
a gismu has no CVC rafsi, you &nbs= p;have to use the four-letter rafsi.

=
Crap! I forgot that restriction. I have used this construction a l= ot. Isn't it possible to regard words like {sparvanila} as a "stage-3 l= ooking-type of stage-4" or something?

Or, is there any w= ay you can rename valsi in jbovlaste, so you don't have to do completely ne= w entries?

mu'omi'e seb


Conversely, if you attempt to make = a type-4 fu'ivla and it consists of a rafsi
ending in a co= nsonant, the appropriate interfix, and a part beginning with a
<= span>consonant, then it is a type-3 fu'ivla and has to be redone. There was= an
entry "mernta" for mint, but that means an American ta= . The correct words are
"spatrmenta" and "diosmo" (the lat= ter, from Greek, cannot be entered in
jbovlaste because of= a bug in vlatai).

Pierre
= --
Don't buy a French car in Holland. It may be a citroen.=

--
You received this mes= sage because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.=
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,= send an email to lo= jban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this grou= p, send email to lojban@googlegr= oups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.<= br>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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