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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 18:01:43 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Taxonomy and lojban
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:
>
>> You can't use "spa" as the rafsi in a type-3 fu'ivla to name a plant. The
>> result, if it is a valid fu'ivla, is a type-4 fu'ivla. Similarly for
>> "tsi". If
>> a gismu has no CVC rafsi, you  have to use the four-letter rafsi.
>>
>
>   I disagree.  The confusion is compounded because the CLL (and jbovlaste
> itself) uses "djarspageti" as an example of a fu'ivla, which certainly
> seems to be a Stage 3. The CLL on Stage 3 fu'ivla only says "A rafsi is
> then usually attached to the beginning of the Lojbanized form, using a
> hyphen to ensure that the resulting word doesn't fall apart."  The
> algorithm given that insists that a four letter rafsi be used doesn't state
> that this is the only valid way to form Stage 3 fu'ivla, only that it "is
> *a* simple and reliable procedure [emphasis added]"  But, yes, it should
> be avoided, probably, to avoid confusions such as mernta....
>

Using a vowel-ending rafsi doesn't guarantee that you end up with a
fu'ivla. You may end up with a lujvo (such as "jaurdei") or with a slinku'i
(such as "djarpitsa"). Short rafsi are fine as long as they are of CVC
form, not CVV or CCV. The resulting C-r-C cluster guarantees that what you
end up with is a fu'ivla.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Michael Turniansky <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mturnian=
sky@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"im"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:0=
4 PM, Pierre Abbat <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phma@bezitopo.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">phma@bezitopo.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow:hidden">You can&#39;t use &quot;spa=
&quot; as the rafsi in a type-3 fu&#39;ivla to name a plant. The<br>


result, if it is a valid fu&#39;ivla, is a type-4 fu&#39;ivla. Similarly fo=
r &quot;tsi&quot;. If<br>
a gismu has no CVC rafsi, you =A0have to use the four-letter rafsi.<br></di=
v></blockquote></div><br></div>=A0 I disagree. =A0The confusion is compound=
ed because the CLL (and jbovlaste itself) uses &quot;djarspageti&quot; as a=
n example of a fu&#39;ivla, which certainly seems to be a Stage 3. The CLL =
on Stage 3 fu&#39;ivla only says &quot;A rafsi is then usually attached to =
the beginning of the Lojbanized form, using a hyphen to ensure that the res=
ulting word doesn&#39;t fall apart.&quot; =A0The algorithm given that insis=
ts that a four letter rafsi be used doesn&#39;t state that this is the only=
 valid way to form Stage 3 fu&#39;ivla, only that it=A0&quot;is <i>a</i> si=
mple and reliable procedure [emphasis added]&quot; =A0But, yes, it should b=
e avoided, probably, to avoid confusions such as mernta....</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Using a vowel-ending rafsi doesn&#39=
;t guarantee that you end up with a fu&#39;ivla. You may end up with a lujv=
o (such as &quot;jaurdei&quot;) or with a slinku&#39;i (such as &quot;djarp=
itsa&quot;). Short rafsi are fine as long as they are of CVC form, not CVV =
or CCV. The resulting C-r-C cluster guarantees that what you end up with is=
 a fu&#39;ivla.</div>
<div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></di=
v></div>

<p></p>

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