Received: from mail-oa0-f55.google.com ([209.85.219.55]:42478) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VWlcD-0001bj-U0 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 04:19:52 -0700 Received: by mail-oa0-f55.google.com with SMTP id n12sf372270oag.10 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 04:19:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=TvVmOl0APIHtm4GVgcIyn7aLqauzFZATE2BGvjR2GrA=; b=IL1Xa1PFdTo+7yV+5QZRKkV6bEliNnIe+19uBYIPIBQ3GHwmph5D2nNbXACm6ClOZX cTxJ9IWXkNcIjvjBq8my3a6LRnNaLmzz4XG/ojsCMgL6y2QrftiMoEomf2Pz8AupmZgE sbHnPVCOkmLNMmQNo2t19feVtXCBXPJkkk6Jms+3SbWZjAt2tkNE7PD5K6R3zFEFzx19 bd0MCHR93hoLjwuJw1VQsBPGG7dV8e3pUOEL6jQj/A2zqEagBPQzi5mbyUb4+BauekqN KIXOjWyC436jOPYtVpOPuwvMhuNy2vLD2QwWc421UMSmy6pOjE/gN6qyS0jujW4QbipD H9Hw== X-Received: by 10.49.104.83 with SMTP id gc19mr21069qeb.12.1382008775152; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 04:19:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.98.35 with SMTP id ef3ls831394qeb.76.gmail; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 04:19:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.236.163.67 with SMTP id z43mr7342060yhk.27.1382008773797; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 04:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qe0-x230.google.com (mail-qe0-x230.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c02::230]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bc1si2021948qcb.1.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 17 Oct 2013 04:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c02::230 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c02::230; Received: by mail-qe0-x230.google.com with SMTP id d4so427666qej.7 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 04:19:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.63.199 with SMTP id c7mr11277383qai.74.1382008773695; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 04:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.18.33 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 04:19:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2611771.s5gv5rhuP9@caracal> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 07:19:33 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Taxonomy and lojban From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c02::230 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c201e0085f2a04e8edfebc X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > > > On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: > >> >> (Well, "djarpitsa" isn't actually a slinku'i, but...) >> > > It is, because "jarpitsa" has lujvo form. > [...] Content analysis details: (0.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mturniansky[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid --001a11c201e0085f2a04e8edfebc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas wro= te: > > > > On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: > >> >> (Well, "djarpitsa" isn't actually a slinku'i, but...) >> > > It is, because "jarpitsa" has lujvo form. > .iesai ri je'u lujvo .i u'u lo speni be lo patfu be mi cu mrobi'o ca lo prulamdei seki'u lo nu mi na satci pensi > > >> Right, I know. Hence the word "reliable" in the CLL. The assertion >> that I was making was that it (the algorithm) was not the ONLY way of >> making Stage-3 fu'ivla, that things like djarspageti are stage 3, Pierr= e's >> assertion to the contrary. >> > > CLL says of stage 3 fu'ivla: "Stage 3 fu'ivla can be made easily on the > fly, as lujvo can, because the procedure for forming them always guarante= es > a word that cannot violate any of the rules." > > The procedure that CLL gives that always guarantees a word that cannot > violate any of the rules requires the rafsi prefix to end in a consonant. > If you allow CVV- and CCV- as prefixes, then stage 3 fu'ivla can no longe= r > be made easily on the fly. > > In any case, it doesn't really matter what one calls valid fu'ivla that > start with CVVrC- or CCVrC-. Whatever one calls them, they cannot be made > as easily on the fly as those that start with CCVCrC-, CVCCrC- or CVCrC, > .ie --gejyspa --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a11c201e0085f2a04e8edfebc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@g= mail.com> wrote:



On Wed, Oct 16, 20= 13 at 7:28 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

=A0 =A0 (Well, "djarpitsa" isn't actually a slinku'i= , but...) =A0

It is, because "jarpitsa" has lujvo form.

=A0 =A0.iesai ri je'u lujvo .i u'u= lo speni be lo patfu be mi cu mrobi'o ca lo prulamdei seki'u lo nu= mi na satci pensi



= =A0
=
=A0
Right, I know. =A0Hence the word "reliable" in the CLL. =A0The = assertion that I was making was that it (the algorithm) was not the ONLY wa= y of making Stage-3 fu'ivla, =A0that things like djarspageti are stage = 3, Pierre's assertion to the contrary.

CLL says of stage 3 fu&= #39;ivla: "Stage 3 fu'ivla can be made easily on the fly, as lujvo= can, because the procedure for forming them always guarantees a word that = cannot violate any of the rules."

The procedure that CLL gives that always guarantees a word that cannot = violate any of the rules requires the rafsi prefix to end in a consonant. I= f you allow CVV- and CCV- as prefixes, then stage 3 fu'ivla can no long= er be made easily on the fly.

In any case, it doesn't really matter what one calls valid fu'i= vla that start with CVVrC- or CCVrC-. Whatever one calls them, they cannot = be made as easily on the fly as those that start with CCVCrC-, CVCCrC- or C= VCrC,=A0
=A0 =A0
=A0 =A0 .ie
=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa
=A0

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